Start of meeting: https://www.youtube.com/embed/HKrd5XKSTAs

5. Deputations from the Public under Standing Order No 24.: Full Council, Tuesday 15 October 2024

14a. Changes to the Winter Fuel Allowance and protecting pensioners from fuel poverty: Full Council, Tuesday 15 October 2024

14b. Support for elderly and vulnerable residents in Portsmouth this winter with the RSV vaccine: Full Council, Tuesday 15 October 2024

14c, Dental Contracts: Full Council, Tuesday 15 October 2024

14d Winter Fuel Payments: Full Council, Tuesday 15 October 2024

14e. Baby Loss Awareness Week: Full Council, Tuesday 15 October 2024

14f. DBS checks within Portsmouth City Council Services: Full Council, Tuesday 15 October 2024

14g. Connors Toy Libraries: Full Council, Tuesday 15 October 2024

15. Questions from members: Full Council, Tuesday 15 October 2024 Questions submitted: https://democracy.portsmouth.gov.uk/documents/s54135/Member%20Questions%20-%2015%20October%202024.pdf

Simon Sansbury:

00:00:00.0 - 00:00:06.519 

 Good evening and welcome to the Pompey politics podcast I'm I'm tiny Morris and I'm Simon Sansbury

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:00:13.649 - 00:00:30.639 

 Good evening And if you're joining us live hopefully you've had a marvellous mothering Sunday uh confident that both Simon and I have uh have gone Well if you're obviously listening as a podcast or catching up then uh hopefully your mothering Sunday went well um I'm pretty certain ours Do

Simon Sansbury:

00:00:30.649 - 00:00:35.04 

 they Simon Um well it it went fantastically although to be fair

Simon Sansbury:

00:00:35.77 - 00:00:39.9 

 the subject of the mothering Sunday for for for um

Simon Sansbury:

00:00:40.459 - 00:00:51.72 

 for Well for myself and uh and my sister was was unfortunately the one doing the cooking which kind of felt a bit odd but it was a delicious meal Um and thank you very much for the invite That was great

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:00:52.389 - 00:01:08.66 

 Absolutely splendid And we are glancing back to Chancellor Jeremy Rude Boy Hunt and his uh his budget on Wednesday which was eagerly anticipated by few and

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:01:09.269 - 00:01:18.97 

 enormously well received my view I guess we're going to go and dive into the the detail and some of the key themes coming out of it And um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:01:19.5 - 00:01:25.04 

 and uh think about you know it would suggest that

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:01:25.879 - 00:01:30.059 

 Jeremy's got one eye on uh on later in the year Perhaps Simon

Simon Sansbury:

00:01:30.639 - 00:02:00.0 

 Um yeah I mean that I mean it's a it's a thing that we'll we'll um I think we'll we'll bounce backwards and forwards later on But uh yeah it it doesn't kind of It wasn't a slam dunk of a budget in the sense of quite often with budgets It's uh oh there's lots of exciting things that you can get really energised about And then over the over the coming days as as people pour over the details they tend to pick them apart and find out Hang on a minute This thing that's looked like a great thing actually turned out not to be a great thing Um

Simon Sansbury:

00:02:00.41 - 00:02:14.75 

 but I don't think we kind of even got that on on this occasion Um and if if you think that if you're of the mind that the election is likely to be in October or November

Simon Sansbury:

00:02:15.449 - 00:02:25.41 

 and the outcome is likely to be a labour victory and obviously whether this Chancellor Jeremy Hunt has much chance of being the chancellor after after the general election

Simon Sansbury:

00:02:25.949 - 00:02:26.529 

 then

Simon Sansbury:

00:02:27.169 - 00:02:34.179 

 we I mean we didn't quite make it work did we But whether it was hunt for a red October or hunt for a red November But But um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:02:34.279 - 00:02:49.72 

 so to avoid a red Yes yes No Fantastic A bit of word Play there ST it I think we we will attempt in our usual style to bring some energy vigour and free song

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:02:50.229 - 00:03:05.279 

 to the budget in itself I think you got slides So and we're gonna we're gonna try and build to a crescendo of the uh the most exciting announcements But uh let's give you a gentle amuse Boche with a with a little

Simon Sansbury:

00:03:05.289 - 00:03:18.6 

 list Yeah So um so we'll go through some of the kind of the uh of the items We'll start with the with the lighter things and kind of work forwards but by all means those in in the comments Uh please um let us know what you what Your thoughts are on the

Simon Sansbury:

00:03:18.839 - 00:03:30.36 

 O on the on the measures that we'll we'll cover and also any that we've not covered because we can't cover the whole thing because it was um it was a speech of much length greater than than the length of the show

Simon Sansbury:

00:03:30.66 - 00:03:50.82 

 Um So um so the debt relief order the £90 charge for basically um waiving your waiving your debts the the the £90 charge is going to be waived So one of the I guess one of the things you don't need if you're trying to If you're struggling to actually um satisfy your debts is the charge to be able to not have to satisfy your debts

Simon Sansbury:

00:03:51.449 - 00:04:19.66 

 um the repayment period for budgeting loans or for those on universal credit So if you're on universal credit you can you can get a um a loan effec effectively to be able to buy certain things It's a different amount of money depending on whether you're a single person a couple or a parent Um that's now uh the repayment period is now increased from 12 to 24 months Um fuel duty is gonna remain frozen at 53 P per litre It's been frozen now since 2011

Simon Sansbury:

00:04:20.739 - 00:04:32.429 

 Um and an alcohol duty an alcohol no alcohol ankles or alcohol has been It's only a cup of tea I've got here Um alcohol duty is also frozen So

Simon Sansbury:

00:04:33.429 - 00:04:37.079 

 yes So some stuff around the edges there anything to say on those ones

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:04:37.54 - 00:05:02.89 

 Well I I think I I guess the the I mean the first couple feel feels like a little bit of tidying up doesn't it As you say you know hammering somebody for an extra 90 quid when they're so deeply in debt they're having to restructure it does feel a little bit like a the final slap on the buttocks I guess if you are you know if you're on universal credit despite what some newspapers might have you believe you'll probably

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:05:03.13 - 00:05:12.75 

 not in a in a flush financial position So obviously spreading those repayment periods out over two years seems like a sensible thing to do I guess

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:05:13.32 - 00:05:20.559 

 the fuel G is an interesting one isn't it Because it is You know I guess it's that tension between

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:05:21.25 - 00:05:30.829 

 you know trying to discourage people from using their cars versus the the natural tension of the alleged cost of living crisis

Simon Sansbury:

00:05:31.279 - 00:05:35.5 

 Alleged cost of living Hang on a minute Are you saying that the cost of living crisis doesn't exist

Simon Sansbury:

00:05:35.82 - 00:05:39.04 

 You're saying it's it's a it's a I

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:05:39.5 - 00:05:42.79 

 I'm saying that for some it absolutely

Simon Sansbury:

00:05:43.489 - 00:05:43.97 

 I mean

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:05:44.91 - 00:06:04.339 

 you know But there is a There is an element of as I've touched on a couple of times on here before you know my work means that quite often I'm travelling the country which means I'm not at home to eat my tea Um And when I step out abroad on a Tuesday or Wednesday night I find almost every

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:06:04.839 - 00:06:07.079 

 food vendor oblique pub

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:06:07.67 - 00:06:34.799 

 jammed to the guns and in fact was out We decided to treat ourselves a couple of weeks ago and nipped out on a Tuesday night Went out early before going to see a show and um could not find anywhere to eat in Portsmouth That wasn't already crammed I mean obviously we didn't travel the whole of Portsmouth as we had limited time So I I guess you know and again not trying to score political points But I think for some the cost of living crisis is biting very hard

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:06:35.489 - 00:06:39.32 

 Um but there does seem to be a demographic for whom

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:06:39.95 - 00:06:49.54 

 um there there still appears to be a a reasonable disposable income that allows lots of folk to nip out on a Tuesday or a Wednesday night

Simon Sansbury:

00:06:50.07 - 00:06:52.619 

 OK and and I guess dispose of it They do

Simon Sansbury:

00:06:53.17 - 00:06:57.38 

 Um yes So um so that was those ones So our next one

Simon Sansbury:

00:06:58.92 - 00:07:05.47 

 So social landlords are now going to be exempted from the 15% stamp duty on properties over 500 K

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:07:05.97 - 00:07:12.709 

 Can you unpack that one a bit for me Simon without throwing you under the bus What's a social

Simon Sansbury:

00:07:12.72 - 00:07:21.239 

 landlord So um so if you're so if you're thinking of councils if you're thinking of um um

Simon Sansbury:

00:07:22.309 - 00:07:44.404 

 if you're thinking of housing associations yeah So um yeah if if they're purchasing uh if they're purchasing properties that are valued over 500 K which to be fair is is relatively easy to to to meet these days um in certain parts of the country then they're now going to be exempted from paying a 15% stamp duty on it on that purchase

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:07:44.415 - 00:07:47.644 

 Seems Seems sensible

Simon Sansbury:

00:07:47.704 - 00:08:12.23 

 doesn't it Well yeah if if that means that there's that I mean Portsmouth is one of the councils where they're buying back houses to take them back into um essentially um um social or community ownership So if that makes that a more effective way to actually increase the council's housing stock Um if if actually getting to build them is is enough of a is enough of a longer term struggle I guess you

Simon Sansbury:

00:08:12.359 - 00:08:19.089 

 you do things in more than one way don't you Rather than just relying on one avenue so every little helps as they say

Simon Sansbury:

00:08:19.799 - 00:08:33.669 

 Um I I think we can both guess that there'll be a a particular person that we know of um that um from our social media circles that will be excited that free port tax relief is extended from 5 to 10 years

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:08:34.619 - 00:08:47.88 

 Yes yes yes I'm surprised we haven't seen a post so far from uh from young Tony but um yeah I'm I'm uh I mean we we we've never done a Freeport show but um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:08:48.34 - 00:09:17.25 

 I I do I do struggle with it having in a previous work life um done an awful lot of of work Um with a distribution hub out of Dubai which obviously is is the the freest of free ports and it it's it's still something where you know whilst I sort of understand it conceptually I'm I'm I'm still not sure how the free Port arrangement works in the UK um and and whether it truly has

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:09:17.739 - 00:09:21.989 

 you know whether these are free ports in name only So I I kind of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:09:22.969 - 00:09:31.119 

 Yeah I think it feels like you know what a free port is or could be or should be We're sort of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:09:31.659 - 00:09:41.429 

 having a bit of a dabble around the edges and I and maybe it's a subject we we need to dive into at some point But um I'm I'm still not sure I quite get it

Simon Sansbury:

00:09:41.94 - 00:09:42.58 

 Well

Simon Sansbury:

00:09:43.58 - 00:09:49.169 

 yeah I guess we'll have to navigate our way to something about free ports and and find a way to

Simon Sansbury:

00:09:49.84 - 00:10:16.369 

 to dock and birth that subject Um energy profits levy extended for one year So this was the um so energy industries are making um higher than predicted profits And even I believe that the the chancellor described them as unearned profits Uh from the from the massive increase in gas and oil revenues due to due to the wholesale prices uh because of uh because of the invasion of Ukraine

Simon Sansbury:

00:10:16.77 - 00:10:24.809 

 um and therefore that tax that tax that extra levy to um to recoup some of that extra unearned um

Simon Sansbury:

00:10:25.429 - 00:10:29.419 

 profit um is is continuing for another year So

Simon Sansbury:

00:10:30.289 - 00:10:39.76 

 again again probably a sensible thing that won't that won't uh shock anyone And it's not gonna you know the likes of BP and Shell aren't gonna stop drilling for oil just because of that are they

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:10:40.599 - 00:10:49.409 

 What does it shock you And I guess it And I think this is where there's there's a dimension below the headlines in this budget

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:10:50.039 - 00:10:51.02 

 which is

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:10:52.239 - 00:11:10.599 

 uh are both of the main parties trying to sit a bit more centrally is there Is it getting harder to distinguish between the two Because I get the clamour of you know I absolutely understand you know the the windfall tax and and

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:11:11.179 - 00:11:16.34 

 you know that kind of element to it But you know as I sorted through some of these

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:11:16.849 - 00:11:37.59 

 um some of these things they they didn't feel like conservative policies to me they felt a little bit more Look look we're we're all being balanced and fair and this was the one where I sort of I don't think there's any wrong in it you know They're not sorting it into good or bad but you know

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:11:38.099 - 00:11:58.909 

 additional tax on big business It it isn't necessarily uh hasn't been a It hasn't been at the forefront of confer conservatives manifestos before So do you think there's something in here I I looking for the conservatives looking to a appease to to try and appeal to that centre

Simon Sansbury:

00:11:58.919 - 00:12:05.08 

 Grant I I don't know I I don't know that having the tax is a political decision

Simon Sansbury:

00:12:06.28 - 00:12:34.479 

 Um in as much as they could they probably understand that they're they're not gonna They're not gonna really probably lose um lose votes in taxing it And it certainly seems to be a sort of tax that uh the public are behind So So in that case it's almost something they expected Um expected um to be um To be continuing to tax um in that way and and in which case um anything that is politically a free win to get more

Simon Sansbury:

00:12:34.719 - 00:12:41.63 

 uh to get more coppers into the exchequer Then um if you were the chancellor would you not take it

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:12:43.099 - 00:12:59.08 

 Yeah And I I think I probably would Um but I guess that this is the This is where I think you know and again we'll come to some more in a minute It's that diff difference between whether you stick or twist isn't it Whereas if you you know my thought is that had that tax been

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:12:59.59 - 00:13:16.419 

 just allowed gently to come to its natural end Well somebody in manifesto writing land might have said Oh look look Look um you know they they they've stopped taxing the big oil oil companies Um but I guess

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:13:16.96 - 00:13:37.83 

 you know I if you look at the conservative or the old conservative mantra of low tax low spend um there there is a this one perhaps signals to me their their a continuation to occupy a more centrist space So um let's let's have a look at what else is on here I

Simon Sansbury:

00:13:37.84 - 00:13:40.89 

 think there are other things that kind that kind of speak to that Um

Simon Sansbury:

00:13:41.469 - 00:13:45.599 

 but yeah whether it's low AAA desire to be low tax low spend or

Simon Sansbury:

00:13:46.45 - 00:13:49.64 

 or a reality of being high tax low spent Um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:13:50.84 - 00:13:54.5 

 Well yeah that's that's I guess where we've come to the wrap up isn't it

Simon Sansbury:

00:13:55.53 - 00:14:14.38 

 So um yeah so let's move it move it on a little bit So the housing support fund um this was actually something that Portsmouth Council leader Steve Pitt mentioned in his budget speech in the chamber in February was concerned about the about that fund that was actually due to be finishing

Simon Sansbury:

00:14:14.88 - 00:14:43.469 

 Um and local councils had been asking for that to be extended for a further two years Uh but the government have have agreed to extend it for another six months So um again it's a It's a kind of like a it seems a very very cautious and tepid response to something that's fundamental So this is funding that's that's used to help people buy essentials for their housing when they if they're um if they're moving into into housing and and aren't able to be able to get them

Simon Sansbury:

00:14:43.799 - 00:15:11.94 

 um there's gonna be a new British ISA um allowing an extra £5000 of allow ISA allowance on top of the existing 20,000 Um which will be designed to um raise money to invest in British businesses Um so uh I mean that that sounds like sounds like a good idea because there is not not everybody um who is in this situation But there are lots of people out there that have got money to invest

Simon Sansbury:

00:15:12.27 - 00:15:21.059 

 Um and maybe if they um if they're happy to be putting their putting their pounds where they um where they um

Simon Sansbury:

00:15:21.69 - 00:15:29.7 

 where the faith is in the future of the UK economy then um then that's only that's can only hopefully be a good thing Uh yeah

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:15:29.849 - 00:15:34.469 

 And I think if you look at it's interesting you look at those two There's a sort of cautious kind of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:15:34.989 - 00:15:58.989 

 you know con continuation of a of A of a support fund which again is a perhaps a less traditionally conservative investment And th this one feels like it's it it it's got a little bit of a a union flag waistcoat on and is is um you know is appealing to you know again I I'm not sure I'm going to be taking advantage of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:15:59.169 - 00:16:26.39 

 um any extra room for investment with all the spare cash this this year But um as you say to to you know we we have it would be fair to say that since um you know since before 2016 there's been a lot of uh a lot of land and hope and glory and flag waving And um well now's your opportunity to put your money into UK PLC and um and push us forward

Simon Sansbury:

00:16:26.57 - 00:16:50.51 

 Um I indeed um the last one I had on on that slide I think is probably more comfortable Um for um for the conservative base Uh so the business VA T threshold So the the point at which um uh a company Um a company's income They they need to start actually paying VA T Um so that's now going up from 85,000 to 90,000

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:16:52.02 - 00:17:12.599 

 Yeah And again I think you used the word timid earlier on Feels a little bit timid You know it's about a five you know just over 5 6% rise Um but I'm sure very welcome If you are one of those businesses that's just on the cusp of moving into needing to be that registered So um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:17:13.088 - 00:17:17.529 

 so yeah again it's

Simon Sansbury:

00:17:17.538 - 00:17:40.329 

 not I mean it's not a huge leap is it But if if you are a small business just on that threshold then that little bit of help you know could be making a difference Um in your in your profitability and whether you're deciding to invest in another um in more in in taking on more people so that you can serve more customers or investing in better plant or software or whatever to

Simon Sansbury:

00:17:40.51 - 00:17:48.8 

 um to help improve your productivity So um you know again that seems quite quite a natural ground but it is a relatively low amount of money

Simon Sansbury:

00:17:49.369 - 00:18:04.349 

 Um of a difference isn't it It's not gonna Oh that's fantastic It's just how many of the how many businesses are on that cusp at the moment that that's just the you know that's now no longer a worry for them I don't I don't I don't know But it sounds good Yeah

Simon Sansbury:

00:18:05.3 - 00:18:15.079 

 Um So um the national living wage for those over the age of 23 will be raising from £10.42 to £11.44

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:18:16.489 - 00:18:43.209 

 That's a I mean And again this is This is where when you look at the national living wage you know that is that is a pretty chunky old rise Um and I guess this is where it it it I know the living wage is a fascinating one isn't it Because it wasn't It wasn't that long ago You know I remember in the in the run up to the 2019 election

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:18:43.839 - 00:18:53.13 

 you know God bless him Uh Jeremy Corbyn was you know hammering the table and saying we're gonna give a £10 living wage

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:18:53.75 - 00:18:56.39 

 Um and you know

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:18:57.01 - 00:19:01.959 

 less than one full term of parliament later It's now at £11.44 So we have

Simon Sansbury:

00:19:01.969 - 00:19:05.859 

 We have had a year where inflation was in double digits so yeah

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:19:05.93 - 00:19:22.16 

 yeah yeah but there's an element of that But that's the interesting piece isn't it You know we we looked at that previous one And you know if if you're earning £11.44 an hour then you know it'll make the math easy If you even at £11 an hour

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:19:22.359 - 00:19:35.479 

 you know on a on a 35 hour week contract You're looking there at the best part you know that that means the the the living wage is now about £20,000 a year So

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:19:36.239 - 00:20:04.869 

 you know when you were looking at that vat threshold If you employ one on 1.5 staff you are or two staff you're you're halfway through to the VAT threshold already in your turnover So um you know I never think it's a bad thing I think that you know at the end of the day you know there is this whole thing about you know trickle down economics and we'll come to it when we get to the tax but for me you know starting by if you're gonna put wage inflation anywhere

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:20:05.05 - 00:20:09.17 

 Putting it in at the bottom of the ladder for me is is uh

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:20:09.819 - 00:20:12.18 

 I I I'm I'm always bowing that

Simon Sansbury:

00:20:12.91 - 00:20:16.17 

 OK so state pension up by 8.5%

Simon Sansbury:

00:20:18.5 - 00:20:28.38 

 triple lock but no mention of the of triple lock Um So um and benefits including universal credit will be up by 6.7 per cent

Simon Sansbury:

00:20:30.439 - 00:21:00.26 

 and the child benefit ta So child benefit Um that's the uh the £24 per week for the first child Um and £15.90 for each Um further child Um they're due to rise in April to £25 60 1695 Um respectively Um but um at the moment um I if you're if if if you're if the recipient is earning more than £50,000 a year

Simon Sansbury:

00:21:00.56 - 00:21:25.479 

 then basically they start having to pay that back up until um earnings of £60,000 a year in which case they don't get any of it Um and what the chancellor is now doing is increasing the start of that taper to £60,000 and increasing the length of the taper to £80,000 Um so rather than having a £10,000 earning a 10,000 earning taper

Simon Sansbury:

00:21:26.15 - 00:21:43.449 

 that doesn't even make sense the way I've said it but hopefully that you know what I mean Um then um then that's gone now to to a £20,000 So and they're also going to be looking at how to do that as a household because several people have commented on Well well hang on a minute If you've got a household where you've got two people earning

Simon Sansbury:

00:21:44.189 - 00:22:08.3 

 um earning actually you know middle incomes or um one earning uh quite a good income And the other one earning a middle or a or a or a lower than average wage Then they kind of do worse off Um sorry Don't do so badly out of a situation where where you've got one person that's actually earning over over that threshold So lots to look at about how that how that works Um and um And to make that

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:22:08.51 - 00:22:13.65 

 it was felt to me like a very unfair and still does Although they played with the numbers a bit

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:22:14.05 - 00:22:24.18 

 you know I think it's the piece which I again even with those new numbers you could have two people earning 55,000

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:22:24.79 - 00:22:30.03 

 pounds a year each And they would get the full amount for 100 and £10,000 a year

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:22:30.569 - 00:22:31.25 

 um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:22:31.8 - 00:22:54.219 

 income And if one parent was working on £80,001 and the other person was a stay at home parent they would get precisely nothing So yeah it does I I I've I've always struggled with it conceptually I mean it It used to be a universal benefit didn't it That was paid irrespective of income And that didn't feel quite right

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:22:54.719 - 00:22:57.5 

 either But I'm never quite sure they've got this one

Simon Sansbury:

00:22:57.78 - 00:23:20.739 

 Yeah I guess it's one another one of those things where you you you you want it to be means tested But the mechanism of means testing It actually costs so much that it becomes an ineffective way to spend the money So it's um it's a it's a It's a strange one but should we get into the Should we get into the more the more juicier ones So

Simon Sansbury:

00:23:20.989 - 00:23:27.65 

 um so the non on taxation on earnings outside the UK So um stealing a bit of labour's thunder there

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:23:29.03 - 00:23:37.969 

 Well I mean to be honest that Labour had spent that 20 billion That that is gonna raise um over and over and over again

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:23:38.5 - 00:24:06.14 

 Um and yeah I mean I guess it's worth just touching a little bit Cos people uh I I got into a discussion online this week where you know people think that if you have no on status you don't pay any tax in the UK Where in fact you know you pay tax in the UK for the money you earn in the UK But if you then earn money in another country then you pay the tax on that money in that country Um and

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:24:06.349 - 00:24:13.41 

 yeah I I mean this was this was one that I expected there to be more noise about Simon But it was kind of announced and

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:24:14.479 - 00:24:17.469 

 I haven't seen any kind of Wow

Simon Sansbury:

00:24:17.689 - 00:24:37.16 

 So yeah so I I kind of think it's a see I I think this is this is a a deliberate curveball in the sense of Well this um and um the Shadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves has you know announced plans of what to what to do with the with the money that um that such a measure would raise

Simon Sansbury:

00:24:37.619 - 00:25:01.39 

 um and and and it almost kind of feels like um Jeremy Hunt As as fact he said Well OK we've put that in place now Now what are you gonna do Are you gonna fund the things that you wanted to fund by raising another tax or by cutting spending somewhere else It's so it's It's almost I don't know It's It's almost a bit of Go on then I dare you um a bit of brinkmanship going on there

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:25:01.709 - 00:25:05.76 

 Yeah it's a political move And I i again it's one of those tax

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:25:06.119 - 00:25:16.609 

 measures which I've sort of I've never quite understood that anyone who's got tax affairs so complex that they've got non do status

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:25:17.579 - 00:25:21.619 

 II I have always doubted whether

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:25:22.189 - 00:25:33.939 

 there's going to be a collective shrugging from those people and go fair enough Um so you know if we look at you know Rishi's soon Ex-wife Sorry I've forgotten her first name Um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:25:35.05 - 00:25:40.5 

 you know she has extensive um businesses in India

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:25:41.219 - 00:25:48.719 

 and I'm still kind of a a little bit of a loss as to whether she's gonna pay all of the taxes due in India

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:25:49.229 - 00:25:55.28 

 Um and then with the money that's earned from those businesses he's then gonna pay tax on that again in the UK

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:25:56.14 - 00:26:01.369 

 Um and just kind of suck that up And she might because she's the wife of the prime Minister

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:26:02.819 - 00:26:08.209 

 But part of me believes that the vast majority of people who have no no status will simply

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:26:08.739 - 00:26:11.68 

 pick up the phone to their accountant and say

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:26:12.28 - 00:26:21.589 

 What are we doing now And the accountants will already be setting up shell companies and trusts and other tax instruments That

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:26:22.27 - 00:26:23.03 

 that will

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:26:23.77 - 00:26:26.14 

 mean that that that 20 billion

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:26:26.829 - 00:26:29.119 

 is never going to end up in the UK coffers

Simon Sansbury:

00:26:30.229 - 00:26:43.109 

 Well um III I guess Yeah that I mean that speaks to taxation causing the change in behaviour That that then means that it never delivers kind of the tax raising power that it was that it was slated to do so

Simon Sansbury:

00:26:43.689 - 00:26:46.5 

 And I guess that that that speaks to

Simon Sansbury:

00:26:47.66 - 00:26:52.069 

 the argument for taxing for not for not just looking at taxing income because that's

Simon Sansbury:

00:26:52.66 - 00:26:56.31 

 to be honest with you That's easy to um to move or to

Simon Sansbury:

00:26:57.06 - 00:27:14.25 

 or to have offset somehow Um whereas if you if you tax wealth itself If you tax assets then um you you know if you've got a house a house in London then you can't move that Well you can but that's really expensive Um so well you know Yeah

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:27:14.26 - 00:27:21.359 

 and and And I guess that's that is the you know that is the other edge of the sword isn't it Which is that you know

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:27:21.839 - 00:27:41.92 

 by by lucky chance the the the the modest three bed house that you you know you grew up in or you bought in Islington in 1961 is now worth £1.3 million But you know you are You are a retired taxi driver on state pension And um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:27:42.51 - 00:27:43.849 

 you know the the

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:27:44.599 - 00:28:03.54 

 the the tax on your wealth is going to be something you're frankly not going to be able to afford but um yes a whole different issue but yeah I expected that one to get more of a fanfare and more of a more of a kind of perhaps a very unser policy Yeah

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:03.55 - 00:28:08.01 

 I mean but there were I mean there are also other things politically that kind of seem to be chucked into the

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:08.18 - 00:28:22.119 

 into the media after the budget So um I mean it was a something that nothing budget wasn't it Really It wasn't the Oh well this is your pitch attempt to try and win an election Um but it also wasn't a

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:22.68 - 00:28:47.349 

 uh Do you know what I mean It it wasn't a Well you can point out that OK these are the things that we wouldn't have done Um but as for as for any opposition party saying Well this is what we would have done instead I don't know that they've quite made um tho those cases yet Um but I guess maybe they're waiting to waiting until manifestos are written Um when the When the GE Is called Uh but that's a That's an entirely different kettle of onions

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:47.68 - 00:28:52.959 

 Um so capital gains tax down from 28 to 24%

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:53.91 - 00:29:00.89 

 So the um so gains taxing on selling of properties that um selling property that's not your home

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:29:02.14 - 00:29:11.239 

 Yes And shares and that in terms of And they dropped the thresholds didn't they A couple of years ago so that that that moved from

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:29:11.819 - 00:29:19.0 

 um so effectively less of it is tax free now but yeah it's uh

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:29:19.63 - 00:29:25.329 

 I'm not sure that the housing market needs any extra stimulation but we'll we'll see how that one

Simon Sansbury:

00:29:26.189 - 00:29:48.229 

 OK so here here are the probably the we we get into the into the into the headline ones So Class four national insurance So that's for the self employed that had already been cut to do Sorry that had already been cut from 9 to 8% But that is now going to be cut to 6%

Simon Sansbury:

00:29:51.42 - 00:29:52.18 

 Yeah

Simon Sansbury:

00:29:52.76 - 00:29:54.76 

 not excited by that one Ian

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:29:54.77 - 00:29:58.709 

 No Well I I never quite understand

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:29:59.239 - 00:30:28.339 

 Uh well I guess it depends how you look at national insurance doesn't it You know national insurance has has always been sort of portrayed As you know it is the money for the NHS It's the money for your pension It's the money for you know it It's about you rather than it's the money that the government takes from you to go and build a ro road or you know employ a policeman or do all those kind of things So your national insurance has always been portrayed as a

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:30:28.55 - 00:30:33.79 

 as it almost looks like a personal tax So I've never quite understood why

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:30:34.31 - 00:30:56.51 

 If you're self employed You pay less national insurance That's one That sort of made me scratch my head Because your you know your pension you don't get a lower pension You don't get any less of an NHS if you're self-employed So that bit I've never understood And I guess if we you know the the big reveal the big kind of headline grabber was

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:30:57.02 - 00:31:03.189 

 that if you're on PAYE your national insurance is dropping down from 10 to 8%

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:31:03.959 - 00:31:09.5 

 So basically everybody gets 2% Another 2% cut in national insurance

Simon Sansbury:

00:31:09.839 - 00:31:29.359 

 Um yeah but um what was interesting was the um was that if you work out because the because the the personal tax allowance has has been frozen um for for quite some time Um and um some some some people that have done some calculations of

Simon Sansbury:

00:31:29.52 - 00:31:46.03 

 what what those what those would have meant the differences those would have made to take home for people in different um on different earnings levels Um kind of mean that that that people kind of I think uh people under about 25,000 had the had um

Simon Sansbury:

00:31:46.449 - 00:32:13.9 

 so with with how the chancellor's announced it they're actually slightly worse off depending on where they are within within kind of that That band Um so sorry between the above the tax allowance Up until uh 12.5 up Up to about 25 Those between 25 and 60 Um they're slightly better off Um And those um above that um are actually slightly worse off compared to um how they

Simon Sansbury:

00:32:14.209 - 00:32:16.51 

 how they would have been had the

Simon Sansbury:

00:32:17.119 - 00:32:41.589 

 um had actually the the thresholds been increased So it's so I I don't know It just seems that age old thing of give with one hand take with the other Um and I don't quite know why if if the if the amounts work out to be roughly the I guess there's a difference between how much it's costing people and how much they're paying or what they're seeing in their take home Versus then Actually how much those two different things raise for the exchequer Because

Simon Sansbury:

00:32:41.8 - 00:33:00.16 

 that surely if your idea is to get more into the into the pockets of the people that need it most you'd raise you raise the threshold because that's the most progressive way to do that and take many more people out of out of um out of paying that form of taxation Um

Simon Sansbury:

00:33:00.839 - 00:33:06.13 

 so it it kind of begs the question Why the chancellor didn't do that I guess it costs too much And this is cheaper

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:33:06.699 - 00:33:31.31 

 Well yeah I think that's I mean that's what it comes down to isn't it And I guess it's a little bit targeted at a at a demographic Which is that as you say you know the the the easiest way to make everybody better off who earns under £100,000 is to raise the personal tax threshold you know so that benefits everybody And it benefits those who earn least most

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:33:31.75 - 00:33:54.349 

 So you you know that that for me has been a sound policy that the conservatives it was their idea They introduced it nobody else was involved Although I think No I mean and and I guess that's where you know you look at it in that you know in the I don't like to use the C word I know it's triggering for you Simon but

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:33:54.66 - 00:34:04.949 

 you know in in that coalition that was something that that was brought in I think it was you know and it's It's been very well I think it's the I think it's just the right thing to do

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:34:05.51 - 00:34:08.36 

 I think the trouble is and this is where I sort of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:34:08.888 - 00:34:35.57 

 you know I look at this budget and as you say it's a little bit of there's a little bit of you know which cup is the P under as the Who swipes them around So the fact is that you know no the threshold hasn't gone up So you know you get into this sort of pseudo nos of Ah yes But if the threshold has gone up well it it was never planned to So you are gonna get a bit of money back and and that's very welcome particularly if your income is very tight

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:34:36.07 - 00:34:42.418 

 But I think if I look at this budget as an overall Simon I think what it says to me is

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:34:43.658 - 00:34:46.378 

 there There simply isn't the money

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:34:47.479 - 00:35:00.429 

 to excite people with tax cuts and investments and spending And you know and again if I look at it you know Labour had committed their £28 billion a year to

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:01.139 - 00:35:02.459 

 green investment

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:03.189 - 00:35:16.689 

 Um and then little Rishi came on our screens and said they're gonna gonna have to borrow it or tax you more And then the next day Labour said uh we thought about it and we're not gonna do that now

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:17.449 - 00:35:25.53 

 And almost in a tit for tat you know Labour have been saying nom dos nom dos non dons And Jeremy's gone there Yeah we sorted that mate

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:26.5 - 00:35:29.919 

 So there's a little bit of cancelling each other out

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:31.07 - 00:35:36.659 

 and I think I I'm wondering whether this whole election is just gonna be a

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:37.25 - 00:35:40.649 

 The picture at the moment is the Tories have run out of ideas

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:41.399 - 00:35:43.27 

 Well the Tories have run out of money

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:44.639 - 00:35:47.419 

 and the country's run out of money

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:48.03 - 00:35:50.959 

 you know half a billion for covid in Ukraine

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:52.03 - 00:35:53.729 

 a half trillion rather

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:54.469 - 00:36:03.679 

 And that money's not coming back So you know a lovely phrase that they used to use You know chancellors have only got a certain number of levers to pull

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:04.82 - 00:36:11.959 

 I I'm not sure that anyone's got any levers to pull And so what we've got is a budget that's a little bit

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:12.85 - 00:36:14.489 

 bit of a mishmash

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:15.53 - 00:36:21.939 

 and the headline grabber is you know national insurance And don't get me wrong I'm happy with the extra money

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:22.919 - 00:36:25.889 

 But I do wonder if I'm honest with you Simon whether

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:26.649 - 00:36:27.219 

 you know

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:28.219 - 00:36:29.479 

 he is that

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:30.449 - 00:36:39.37 

 is that gonna make a material difference to the economy Is that gonna make If you're being cynical will it make a material difference politically

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:39.969 - 00:36:48.12 

 Do you think people who were thinking well I think the Tories have run their race So I think they've done enough Now are going to go Oh do you know what I've got an extra

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:49.01 - 00:36:54.6 

 25 quid a month Let me take home pay with this national insurance card Maybe these guys aren't so bad

Simon Sansbury:

00:36:55.129 - 00:37:03.469 

 Um I I can't I I can't see it myself Um I don't II I don't know that that's gonna be

Simon Sansbury:

00:37:04.939 - 00:37:33.87 

 II I don't know that it's enough of a thing to kind of tie in Uh I I don't know whether perhaps the theory is and this is this is kind of where you get into the question of Does this alter any any thinking about what we what we suppose might be happening about the about the timing of the general election and uh the PM has has said that he's always operating under the principle that that the General will be in the second half of the year I mean the fact that he said it doesn't doesn't really kind of make that necessarily

Simon Sansbury:

00:37:34.469 - 00:37:51.939 

 Um uh a reliable um piece of uh piece of information in the sense of stuff changes And and I'm sure that if the political situation completely changed overnight then then then any PM would be making a different decision of questioning that that one Anyway I I don't know whether this is a

Simon Sansbury:

00:37:54.08 - 00:37:55.649 

 things are too

Simon Sansbury:

00:37:56.469 - 00:38:06.5 

 skittish at the moment for us to do anything really big and scare the markets And therefore we're not going to do a trust quoting uh kind of situation We're going to do some

Simon Sansbury:

00:38:07.449 - 00:38:29.969 

 tickling around the edges to try and try and convince people that things are mildly better off or getting or getting better for them And then maybe make some sort of big announcements in an autumn statement ahead of head of a GE being called Um where where that would be the case Because wasn't it soon act that said when he was Chancellor that by the by the end of this parliament um

Simon Sansbury:

00:38:30.87 - 00:38:48.57 

 that um that national sorry that income tax would be being uh would be being reduced Um so uh and that that's obviously kind of doesn't seem to be there And that's another thing Why the Why the move From doing things with income tax to National Insurance Co

Simon Sansbury:

00:38:49.379 - 00:39:06.199 

 Uh pensioners don't pay don't pay national insurance Um national insurance is paid both by employees and employers These measures that we were talking about are only measures um for employees Um so if you're a business trying to

Simon Sansbury:

00:39:06.389 - 00:39:30.32 

 If what If What the government wants is more people coming into the workplace that doesn't kind of really help that that helps people have a little bit but not much more money kind of in their pockets But the things that they've done on the other end of the scale mean that they're not really any better off than than had they had the tax allowance been increasing Or or indeed most of these things are wiped out by

Simon Sansbury:

00:39:30.79 - 00:39:47.209 

 the the cuts that central government have made to funding of local government And that means that local governments have all had to increase their their council tax by 5% anyway and and essentially that that extra 25 or 30 or 40 quid a month is being eaten up in your council tax rise anyway

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:39:47.79 - 00:40:06.659 

 Well and I think I think that's where And that's where as I say I think it's a little bit of a shell game at the moment which is you know what goes down is you know the the national insurance bit has gone down but the council tax has gone up And and I think this is where I think you're right I think that you know ultimately

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:40:07.169 - 00:40:28.229 

 there there's an element of hanging on hoping it's gonna get better I think I think there will be an autumn statement Um you know II I think there is this piece of I do wonder whether this is you know this is a cautious optimism budget that says things are getting a bit better and you know inflation's coming down and all of those kind of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:40:28.76 - 00:40:37.229 

 positive factors But I generally think in terms of if you look at the you know there simply isn't the wiggle room I think anywhere

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:40:37.889 - 00:40:42.5 

 um you know to to to make any kind of no gesture

Simon Sansbury:

00:40:42.899 - 00:41:04.86 

 Yeah unless you literally are a magician there There isn't a rabbit to be pulled out of a hat and there and there isn't a hat Um which is which is quite ironic considering obviously the the much political uh political coinage that that was made out of the out of the note left by the outgoing labour Um Chancellor of the exchequer um

Simon Sansbury:

00:41:05.55 - 00:41:32.879 

 that that was found when the when the coalition government took over in 2010 which was the Sorry there's no money left which depending on who you listen to it is actually meant to be a kind of traditional kind of in in joke between chancellors or something reprehensible irresponsible depending on who you listen to Um considering that was the framing of the last change of government from uh from LA to conservative Whereas this way round

Simon Sansbury:

00:41:33.429 - 00:41:37.57 

 there isn't even enough to buy the note paper to write the note on by the by the sound of it

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:41:39.09 - 00:41:45.6 

 Yeah I think there's an element of I think I think it is a It is a piece where

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:41:46.149 - 00:41:52.469 

 you know if you look at you know and again if you look at it going forward it's that well

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:41:53.189 - 00:42:00.409 

 uh I I guess Part of our questions that we usually like to ask when we refer to these things is what would you have done differently

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:01.11 - 00:42:08.379 

 And you know if if I'm looking at that budget with my steely fiscal conservative head on

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:09.3 - 00:42:09.949 

 um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:10.739 - 00:42:12.929 

 there's a lot in there I wouldn't have done

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:14.31 - 00:42:31.709 

 But ultimately in the year that there's going to be a general election with a AAA nation pretty grumpy about the whole state of affairs and cost of living crisis And you know uh mortgage rates are you know X decade year high

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:32.439 - 00:42:35.0 

 I think my fiscal message of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:35.53 - 00:42:51.439 

 you know we all need to tighten our belts and try a bit harder and save a few quid here and there And we're going to need to have yet more cuts in spending I I don't think would resonate with the electorate And um it's probably why I'm not in politics

Simon Sansbury:

00:42:51.649 - 00:42:54.169 

 No I don't I don't Well the

Simon Sansbury:

00:42:54.969 - 00:42:57.459 

 this is this is the thing I don't I don't think

Simon Sansbury:

00:42:58.5 - 00:43:25.26 

 uh but that that's possibly why um Labour's strategy is is not to promise the moon on a stick but because they they they know that there isn't There isn't money there for it Um and you know to a to a certain degree not to not to scare the markets that they're gonna have to continue for quite a while with the existing spending plans of Of what is our current government So it it it it just kind of remains to be seen

Simon Sansbury:

00:43:26.229 - 00:43:54.469 

 What What does happen when the when the general election is is actually called Um and this is all without anybody trying to consider whether we should be at a time where um where international tensions are running high that we should be whether we should or shouldn't be spending more on our on our defence um than the than the 2.5% that we do that we do at the moment considering we we keep hearing regular news items about you know aircraft carriers that got this fault or that fault or

Simon Sansbury:

00:43:54.949 - 00:44:14.05 

 or you know or um members of the armed forces not having having the right kit Um and it's none of these None of there isn't a Oh but we can go here and there's a good answer here or there's a There's a great thing here if any If anything it sounded like the 28 billion

Simon Sansbury:

00:44:14.78 - 00:44:19.61 

 and investment in Green Thing was the only good thing to look at and borrowing in order to invest

Simon Sansbury:

00:44:20.54 - 00:44:49.36 

 was surely something that that makes sense If that's you know if you're investing in a in something that's gonna increase productivity in something that's gonna lower prices for consumers that then I I don't know it sounds almost again a timid response to say OK we're not now not gonna do that because it would look financially irresponsible to then borrow more money When when When the you know when our when our debt is is currently what 94 96% of GDP

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:44:50.169 - 00:44:59.27 

 Yeah and I think it's that element of it is The trouble is with with investment on that scale as you know yourself Simon is like with any massive project

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:45:00.07 - 00:45:11.37 

 you know the the the the deferred gratification of that stimulation comes several years after the spending

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:45:11.889 - 00:45:30.479 

 So you know you are probably 50 60 70 billion in to spending before you start to see that stimulation you know having a turning around in a pay back into the economy So it's quite a roll of the dice and I think there is this element of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:45:31.01 - 00:45:42.3 

 of I I you know I'm I'm not sure that we haven't pawned the dice and we're We're You know I think there is an element of II I genuinely think this political campaign is

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:45:42.81 - 00:45:44.459 

 it is going to be

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:45:45.33 - 00:45:51.739 

 I I think there's gonna be It's gonna be a lot of something and nothing I think that I don't think any

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:45:52.379 - 00:45:56.479 

 I think the Tories campaign slogan is going to be Well it'll be shit

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:45:57.07 - 00:46:13.02 

 post covid whoever had been in charge and I think the other parties are well we're not as bad as the we're not them So we'll be better possibly apart from reform which is that Well it's all the immigrants fault isn't it So um

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:13.189 - 00:46:26.879 

 yeah I think that in absence of any attention grabbing um and exciting policies from the major parties that kind of does create a void where other parties could be making

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:27.3 - 00:46:36.239 

 some headway by promising things or picking on particular policies You know whatever they may or may not be and however

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:36.76 - 00:46:39.62 

 logical rational or tasteful they may or may not be

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:40.77 - 00:46:42.8 

 um in desperation people

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:43.56 - 00:46:45.679 

 people can vote for um

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:46.37 - 00:47:06.52 

 can can vote in strange ways Um and they can if they if their answer is Well you're all bloody rubbish So I'm just going to vote for these guys to stick two fingers up at you as as we saw last week that that can happen too Could that happen in a general We don't know Um and we don't know when the general is going to be but we do know that Theresa May won't be standing in it

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:47:07.489 - 00:47:16.209 

 Yes yes yes indeed Yes yes And you have beautifully taunted people this week with the general election we'll see The end of May will be the end of May

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:47:16.54 - 00:47:25.489 

 Um which is top work on your part So um I guess if we draw a line under the budget and look ahead um we've got an unusual show time this week

Simon Sansbury:

00:47:25.59 - 00:47:43.86 

 Uh yeah So O on Wednesday Um at 6 27 we're gonna be going live uh speaking to some of the members of the um the Women's group of Councillors on on Portsmouth City Council Um and um having having um having an opportunity to to hear their views Um hear why

Simon Sansbury:

00:47:44.08 - 00:48:07.949 

 Um such a group I is needed Why Actually there aren't more women actually on the council Um they're woefully underrepresented Um in in the chamber Um and um what more can be done about that So it'd be really great to hear what what they've got to say Um but our scheduling means that we've got that in on uh Wednesday at 6 27 So do join us live at that time and we'll also repeat it I know we're getting into repeats now as well

Simon Sansbury:

00:48:08.32 - 00:48:09.189 

 Um next

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:48:09.199 - 00:48:20.8 

 Sunday if your if your Sunday evening wouldn't be the same without something on at 1827 we will uh we will We will webcast it later so you can watch it twice if you want to

Simon Sansbury:

00:48:21.239 - 00:48:33.76 

 You can You can watch it again Or of course um from later in the evening of the of the show broadcasting live it will be available wherever you can get your podcasts But to make sure you don't miss out on any of any of our

Simon Sansbury:

00:48:34.07 - 00:48:56.889 

 informative um and hopefully enjoyable content Then please do remember to follow us on face Facebook or subscribe to us on YouTube um or follow us on Twitter or X or in all of the places Uh but you can find out the links to all of our online presences on our on our website which is PP podcast all as one word.uk So PP podcast

Simon Sansbury:

00:48:57.31 - 00:49:01.28 

 dot UK um you'll find all of our links there so um yeah

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:49:02.219 - 00:49:06.25 

 So you've been listening to the Pompey politics podcast I've been Ian Tiny

Simon Sansbury:

00:49:06.26 - 00:49:13.5 

 Morris and I've been Simon Sansbury Please do join us next time As I say on um on Wednesday at 6 27 See you then

Simon Sansbury:

00:49:21.429 - 00:49:24.459 

 Thank you for listening to this episode of the Pompey politics podcast

Simon Sansbury:

00:49:25.129 - 00:49:28.29 

 If you want to make sure you get notifications about upcoming shows

Simon Sansbury:

00:49:29.06 - 00:49:42.449 

 and get to know when we're live we normally broadcast live 6:27 p.m.

on a Sunday evening and then follow US on Facebook at Pompey Politics Podcast You can also follow US on Twitter at Pompey Politic one please If you'd like to

Simon Sansbury:

00:49:43.1 - 00:50:01.61 

 feel free to leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts and you can even ask Alexa to play the podcast for you Alexa play the latest episode of the Pompey Politics Podcast Pompey Politics Podcast from Amazon It's easy

Simon Sansbury:

00:00:00.0 - 00:00:02.65 

 Good evening and welcome to the Pompey politics podcast

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:00:23.5 - 00:00:52.97 

 In fact it is Good morning Which just goes to prove that we pre-recorded that little bit to make sure that we get it right all the time Welcome to the Pompey politics Podcast For those of you listening live it's 10 o'clock on Sunday morning we decided Frankly Coonsburg has had it all to herself for far too long And we thought we'd uh we'd try the morning slot If you're listening to the delayed semi live version It's 6 27 If Simon's remembered to push the buttons at the right time And if you're listening on podcast well done give us five stars rate and review

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:00:53.11 - 00:00:59.22 

 So um here we are Sunday morning a bleary eyed Simon Who have we got this morning Simon

Simon Sansbury:

00:00:59.459 - 00:01:03.759 

 So this morning as we go head to head with um with Peter Finlay on poll

Simon Sansbury:

00:01:04.79 - 00:01:11.48 

 So um so this morning we are joined by Councillor Councillor Dan Weems um from Hills Ward Welcome Dan

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:01:12.18 - 00:01:17.41 

 Welcome Thank you uh for having me on And I apologies for getting you guys up early on a Sunday

Simon Sansbury:

00:01:17.47 - 00:01:40.739 

 but that That's OK That's OK We we we we're normally shouting at television at this time in the morning anyway So it it's um it's hopefully not too not too bad And we don't look too bleary eyed Um but it's worth trying to see whether we can find A to find our audience in the morning for a change We'll we'll see We'll see But um so we we're here to talk about uh matters here Ozy with Dan Uh and and then once we've kind of gone through

Simon Sansbury:

00:01:40.889 - 00:01:59.18 

 gone through Um those items um we're also gonna have a bit of a preview in uh Tuesday's full council uh meeting which is looking at the uh at the at pas City Council's budget So you can imagine that's gonna be as exciting as as that can possibly be But we'll have a chat about that later on

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:02:00.0 - 00:02:08.8 

 Well we'll we'll try and bring as much energy as we can to a potential 11 hour fist fight But um yeah we'll see what we can do with it

Simon Sansbury:

00:02:09.08 - 00:02:11.369 

 OK that's great So um

Simon Sansbury:

00:02:11.929 - 00:02:16.05 

 so I'll I'll um I'll head off So um Dan um

Simon Sansbury:

00:02:17.02 - 00:02:34.389 

 so couple of things that a couple of things that we we wanted to talk about One of them is is is um is with regards to uh pharmacies Um last year you were part of the campaign to to stop Rowlands pharmacy in in London Road from closing Can you remind us why this campaign was important at a at that time

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:02:35.44 - 00:02:57.33 

 Um yeah So a little over 12 months ago basically Rowland's uh head office decided Well I guess they were in a restructuring And um they were looking at different uh pharmacies up and down the country and just seeing where they could obviously I guess do cost savings And one of them was in London Road in Halsey And the way that the clinical uh

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:02:58.059 - 00:03:14.619 

 mechanisms work is basically um if you're a pharmacy provider and you wish to close then you can move all your uh patients over to a pharmacy that's close by And that would have been in Kingston uh road which is obviously for a lot of residents in Halsey not somewhere that

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:03:14.83 - 00:03:37.13 

 is overly close Um and indeed the closest one being cot is quite a a walk away especially for those who are run on bore indeed may have a disability and can't make it that far So uh at that point when we heard that uh the ex uh Hills Councillor Scott Pater Harris and I we decided to look at the provision and to see where we can uh keep that provision in hills

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:03:37.729 - 00:04:01.169 

 So once we um looked into that we met with um different providers and just to see if they're interested in taking over um taking over the pharmacy in hills And we also gave a deputation at the health and well being board um basically to amplify uh residents concerns and to say that the demand is there So if the demand can be proven basically other providers can take over that site

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:04:01.789 - 00:04:13.32 

 Um we also strengthened a motion at full council which spoke about um pharmacy provision and GP provision in general in Halsey And uh we decided that we could have strengthened that with an amendment which we did

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:04:14.24 - 00:04:26.779 

 And then we led a petition uh which was created by residents to basically exemplify that once and say Please don't close our pharmacy We a lot of us use it And then uh furthermore to that we also met with um

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:04:27.739 - 00:04:50.97 

 the people who worked at the pharmacy and basically asked like um you know what their concerns were And once we collected all that evidence and data we put it to the ports of Clinical Commissioning Group as well as like I said the health and well being board And um the NHS basically said yes we can uh keep the provision And uh another provider could um bid for that And uh we have

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:04:51.359 - 00:05:18.54 

 people from up and down the country actually uh show interest for that site So we had people from Birmingham all the way up from Newcastle But we felt that I mean it wasn't our decision but we felt that a local provider such as in LA uh Lally would be the best one So we met with them and uh spoke through with um them on what the best case scenario would be And that's basically what um happened um kept the pharmacy open and uh a lot of happy hills residents um

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:05:18.92 - 00:05:22.869 

 can get their prescriptions And indeed um some basic medical

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:05:23.51 - 00:05:40.47 

 So then um yeah the The pharmacy's been saved Uh and just uh uh uh last week the government announced that the pharmacists were gonna be able to effectively issue some common prescriptions to save people having to go to their GP

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:05:40.63 - 00:05:53.929 

 Do you see this as AAA welcome addition Or is this just putting more pressure on on pharmacies which we've we've covered before on the podcast Are are having some issues in recruiting and retraining enough trained staff

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:05:54.82 - 00:06:16.19 

 I'd say it's um a number of measures that the government have recently released in in um the hope of obviously reducing waiting times and alleviating some of the pressure on um I would say A&E S um up and down the country I mean most people go to their pharmacy first before they go to their GP So it only makes sense that we can strengthen

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:06:16.989 - 00:06:45.649 

 Um what you can provide at the pharmacy then hopefully we can take some of that pressure off um GP practises I'd say 10,000 pharmacies up and down the country are gonna benefit from this um £645 million worth of funding Yes there will obviously be some teething measures That is the case with any large scale um policy such as this But if you look at the crux of the matter if you can get the people who see the most people in that community bar GPS to the actual office and medical

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:06:45.79 - 00:07:13.899 

 service um you can you can stop unnecessary appointments and actually be able to give GPS the time that they can obviously serve um with more complicated procedures I mean it's gonna take a few years that that's true like to actually be able to streamline the service But essentially um all new pharmacists from memory are gonna be able to prescribe So if we can get the ball mo moving now then obviously it's gonna be a lot easier when these new pharmacists come in And obviously

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:07:14.179 - 00:07:22.309 

 we're trying to make sure to say we um the government are trying to ensure that that shortage of pharmacists is is plugged

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:07:23.0 - 00:07:39.929 

 and this £645 million worth of funding helps to do that I'd say Yeah keeping the um things they can prescribe for simple at the present will obviously mitigate risks But it will also help alleviate that pressure I mentioned before So I think it's only a good thing And uh obviously

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:07:40.51 - 00:07:46.339 

 it isn't uh the silver bullet But it's definitely something that can help And I think in a few years time we'll see the benefit of that

Simon Sansbury:

00:07:47.04 - 00:08:02.5 

 Cool Lovely Um sorry Um yeah So um I mean looking at hills spec Specifically Dan What What do you What do you think is is missing in the ward in terms of health provision And um and who do you see is responsible for plugging that gap

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:08:03.26 - 00:08:14.5 

 I think this might be one of the times where I actually agree with my ward colleagues on uh some of some issues but um I definitely say one of the things that is missing is a GP surgery and I know that there's um

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:08:14.67 - 00:08:35.609 

 a lot of concerns by residents where there is the space that well there was the space at south down view for that GP practise that was promised It was way before my time So I can't really comment on the ins and outs of what was agreed but I know that there was something that was mentioned Indeed one of the concerns which we will lead on to in a bit was talking about how we could have used the new centre site for such a provision But

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:08:35.979 - 00:08:54.849 

 I think uh you know in Halsey Spaces is hard to come by If you can find somewhere to put a GP it would be fantastic But at the end of the day those the people who make the decision is the Portsmouth Clinical Commissioning Group and as well as the NHS England in general And I think they have the responsibility Um one of the things that I would say is

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:08:55.28 - 00:09:08.049 

 if you can have that grassroots campaign where you can show that there is a need for provision then NHS England will listen I mean that was exemplified by the um the pharmacy campaign But indeed if it's it's down to

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:09:08.739 - 00:09:34.359 

 it stands to that clinical commissioning group If they can obviously put forward a service and indeed find a provider that's one of the things If you can't find a provider to give essential medical services then you're not gonna be able to open one up So it's It's always um a thing with local government Indeed with national government indeed with everything else around it with the NHS is you need to put those people together in a room and actually just and and discuss what needs to happen I mean you only have to look at what Penny Morgan did recently with the

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:09:35.229 - 00:09:50.679 

 with the dentistry summit she held and she was quite successful in getting everyone into a room and getting that um national funding for extra dentists So if we can do something similar for GPS if the need is there then perfect it'd be brilliant And I think that's something we could definitely look into Um

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:09:51.369 - 00:10:14.28 

 moving forward I mean you only have to look at demographics within hills It's growing It's a growing population Historically it's older than younger So if I would say a GP practise is needed especially in the next 10 to 15 years So I'm happy to look into that And I definitely would push that to all uh all people in senior leadership and different entities to take a look and see what is needed in the future

Simon Sansbury:

00:10:14.46 - 00:10:22.489 

 Cool So it's it's not as easy as finding a site Then you've gotta you've gotta line up the the who's gonna actually fill it You've gotta find the money So it's it you know

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:10:23.07 - 00:10:41.484 

 E Exactly It it it sounds amazing in in principle when I you know no one's against having more GPS like you know everyone Everyone is obviously happy to support that You just need to really look into the details And that's one of the things that is always difficult especially as a counsellor You know we're not experts in

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:10:41.494 - 00:10:57.33 

 and in the medical field not experts in a lot of things But most of the things that I would say that a counsellor does is you voice the concerns of residents and what they see as on face value is we need GPS and need a GP in hills So obviously I I commend any counsellor indeed and my war colleagues putting that forward

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:10:57.969 - 00:11:23.38 

 Perfect So Dan a little change of tack now Um a Anyone who's sort of driven into Portsmouth will know the iconic new Centre um as you come in through hills um currently being demolished and be Before that happened there was a A campaign to get the building listed Um it's being knocked down to make way for the new electric bus depot

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:11:23.609 - 00:11:30.549 

 Um did you share the thinking behind getting the new centre listed or or or looking to save it I think

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:11:30.75 - 00:11:47.88 

 with this it's I always follow what residents want So um in this instance we did look into this in the building and obviously it's very very difficult thing to do And you only have to look at what's happening in Drayton uh with the pub obviously trying to be designated and it's hard to

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:11:49.039 - 00:12:16.049 

 work out the best approach So we did look into it Obviously it didn't happen A lot of residents were upset Some residents were happy I'd say it's a very dividing um line in hills with some residents wanting to see the building gone and just made into something new And a lot of residents um love the fact that it's you know it's that historical architecture that they really like It's you know when you drive into hills you drive into Portsmouth It's one of the first things you see And I would say

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:12:17.03 - 00:12:38.33 

 you know I always follow the majority when it comes to these things So there's always gonna be some unhappy people and happy people with the demolition But I the issue is that this case and scenario it just didn't happen and you know there will be other buildings in across the city that will probably face similar um campaigns And um it will have to see what happens But in this case it didn't happen

Simon Sansbury:

00:12:38.869 - 00:12:46.38 

 So now that the decision has been has been taken to to remove it and as you said the the the demolition is actually under way

Simon Sansbury:

00:12:47.179 - 00:12:57.01 

 Um do you do Do you think that that's AAA positive outcome of actually putting in that facility for an electric uh bus charging station Is that gonna be a good thing for the community

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:12:57.229 - 00:13:10.69 

 My personal opinion is it's a good thing Um I think a fleet of electric vehicles that can serve the city and its residents is always a positive My only concern and uh this is shared with many people is the manner of which the buildings being demolished

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:13:10.95 - 00:13:18.75 

 and what um consultations being had with residents And indeed what communications being had with residents Cos At present I would say it's not good enough

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:13:18.929 - 00:13:43.78 

 Um at the beginning of this scenario we were promised a lot of things Councillor Simpson Councillor Stoick and I we we met with um first bus and said Look one of the things that we We know the building's gonna get demolished We know that's we can see your plans We'd like the idea of the bus fleet but what we don't like is you're removing the entire building So if there's anything that you can keep that obviously can show this historical value of the site that would be brilliant So when we met

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:13:43.789 - 00:14:08.65 

 the first bus there they promised us to keep the pond area and some of the signage Um some of that hasn't been pro That hasn't been fulfilled The other thing was the sound proofing along As you drive into military road they were gonna put some sound sound dampening So basically when the demolish demolition happened it would be less likely to impact residents as well as when the building was erected is erected It would also stop some of the noise from some of the buses and cars et cetera

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:14:09.119 - 00:14:34.07 

 However I know with building works there's always gonna be issues But one of the things that we weren't expecting was glass into the road which happened obviously this weekend which is ridiculous and not good enough The other thing that isn't good enough is the lack of notice by the council during the planning phase we raised copious amounts of concerns with that You know if you want buy in from residents you need to communicate with them The other issue was the consultation

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:14:35.039 - 00:14:41.289 

 What's the point of collecting all of this feedback if you're not going to implement some of it So that's one of the problems I've had with the entire

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:14:41.859 - 00:15:08.619 

 sigh Yes it's the same thing with the GP I guess Like it sounds great in principle but how do you enact it So if you're getting lots of residents complaining then you're not doing things properly and I'd say yes in maybe in 10 years when you can see the fleet of uh electric buses that are serving the residents in Portsmouth Great But it's always gonna have that issue where historically you just remember the glass in the road the noise going on at 6 a.m.

which isn't good enough either So

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:15:09.13 - 00:15:19.96 

 it's very dividing personally As I said it sounds great in principle but I don't like what the developer doing and I don't like that the first bus hasn't communicated with residents very well

Simon Sansbury:

00:15:19.969 - 00:15:30.299 

 Do you think that's a common thing with with developers in general Do you think some do better at that than than others Is that is cos I mean obviously building works as disruptive as they are Uh

Simon Sansbury:

00:15:30.51 - 00:15:39.25 

 uh are quite temporary But is is that just kind of like a given in the in the in In your experience of what other developers do that

Simon Sansbury:

00:15:39.94 - 00:15:45.13 

 that that basically that's just gonna be the case or they or others better at working with local communities

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:15:45.14 - 00:15:59.109 

 I think there's always going to be those who you use as an example of best practise And I would definitely say You can have the noise and you can have some of the issues I mean with the buildings as large as that there's gonna be problems But it's

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:15:59.409 - 00:16:14.549 

 the positive impact you have when you obviously speak to residents from the door and you say Look we know there's going to be a lot of noise How can we mitigate that Um here's my phone number Some just simple things that like a lot of developers don't think of which you know the communication side

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:16:15.19 - 00:16:43.929 

 it If you meet with residents regularly you can take them with you And that's one of the things that you need to get as a developer You need to get resident buy in for those who are surrounding as well as especially if it's a building that people are gonna live in like you need to obviously get buy in there But with the new centre site if there's gonna be commercial space there's gonna be obviously a lot of people coming in and out And if you can't show residents the positive impact it's gonna have on the community you you're just not gonna get that buy in I mentioned earlier so I'd say it's

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:16:44.7 - 00:16:53.809 

 there's There's always bad examples that you can have but there's also good examples that I would just say this You just need to have good practise when you speak with the residents that you're impacted

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:16:53.82 - 00:17:12.3 

 You've already touched on the fact that the uh the issue has been quite divisive in terms of some residents supporting or some residents kind of in in favour in terms of hills More generally what What What You know I I Is it a case of of residents Are are are are sort of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:17:12.81 - 00:17:17.9 

 looking for for what developments are the residents really looking for I mean

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:17:17.91 - 00:17:40.579 

 when I speak to people on the door when it comes to developments they they wanna see a net gain in terms of how can I use this development as a resident like one of the things that I I always put forward is when anything's getting built in hills Has it got their longevity Is it having a positive impact up and down the demographic of those who live there

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:17:40.839 - 00:17:51.27 

 And indeed what's the impact it's going to have while it's getting built So one of the things that's always missing is obviously health provision but finding a site is very difficult

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:17:51.5 - 00:18:17.339 

 Um transport I mean this is getting built with the new centre but obviously there's issues there and then it it depends what else so like you know obviously change It's changing It's changing Uh historically it's very different to what it is now but you just need to ask residents what they see So at present health provision is one of the biggest issues that residents want and are always constantly messaging me about So I'd definitely say when you speak to people on the doorstep

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:18:17.78 - 00:18:21.53 

 things such as more dentistry and more GPS is is what concerns them

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:18:21.54 - 00:18:32.189 

 Brilliant And that's been fantastic Thank you ever so much for uh for giving up your Sunday morning for us And um and uh yeah hopefully they'll uh

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:18:32.4 - 00:18:36.66 

 there'll be more to come and uh we'll keep an eye on how these things evolve

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:18:36.67 - 00:18:41.459 

 Yeah definitely Thank you very much for having me on And uh yes I look forward to the 12 hour meeting on Tuesday

Simon Sansbury:

00:18:41.469 - 00:18:42.359 

 I wish you well

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:18:42.839 - 00:18:49.51 

 Yeah No Pl plenty Plenty of snacks and caffeine I think is probably the answer Although Mayor Tom Cole seems to be

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:18:49.79 - 00:18:55.78 

 seems to uh channel who's in a Klingon to try and keep the meetings much briefer than they used to be He's

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:18:55.79 - 00:19:12.089 

 done very well I I appreciate that You know we don't always need to hear the same thing over and over again from different councillors So he's quite good at um cutting people off and they need to be uh but yeah no I look forward to it I mean I've heard stories that people used to order Domino's in KFC and so I might see if I can uh

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:19:12.579 - 00:19:14.719 

 reignite that old tradition and order

Simon Sansbury:

00:19:14.77 - 00:19:19.939 

 Some other food service providers are available

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:19:21.839 - 00:19:22.13 

 Uh

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:19:23.26 - 00:19:28.88 

 I'm vegetarian now so I can I can't My days of KFC are behind me but I'm sure

Simon Sansbury:

00:19:29.3 - 00:19:32.27 

 people wish you well Thanks for joining us Thank you for

Cllr Dan Weymss:

00:19:32.39 - 00:19:32.589 

 having me

Simon Sansbury:

00:19:37.069 - 00:19:51.41 

 So um yeah good to good to hear from Dan About the uh about those issues Um hopefully something positive coming out of out of um out of the broader landscape with with pharmacies Um and

Simon Sansbury:

00:19:51.979 - 00:19:57.449 

 it remains to be seen what happens with the with the function of the development on the new centre site

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:19:59.119 - 00:20:17.829 

 Yeah and it's a difficult one isn't it Because the the uh the new centre uh de de debate discussion for me echoed you know the the the debate of Good Lord I I'll probably be out by 10 years you know 2025 years ago when the decision was made to knock down the tricorn

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:20:18.4 - 00:20:27.14 

 You know it was a it was a development that sort of was quite iconic in terms of Portsmouth But um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:20:27.709 - 00:20:51.689 

 W you know clearly was not fit for purpose or function for the sort of modern world And you know the new centre and I guess this speaks to how the world has changed You know a giant building Um you know still called the new Centre But I don't know how many years ago the news moved out of the new centre but you know those big kind of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:20:52.239 - 00:20:57.15 

 seventies style uh sixties or seventies You know those

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:20:57.68 - 00:21:11.119 

 that those pieces of architecture striking as they may have been you know not sound not easy to insulate not cheap to run big you know just

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:21:11.859 - 00:21:25.15 

 isn't a thing that that people need anymore you know or or businesses want So you know it was was always going to be a challenge um you know to to to find a function for it

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:21:25.689 - 00:21:30.04 

 Uh and ultimately I guess that's why it's um currently got a wrecking ball

Simon Sansbury:

00:21:30.5 - 00:21:42.29 

 Just a it I mean it It It is the changing landscape of our media the um the changing environment of the technology That means that we can you know to be honest with you I

Simon Sansbury:

00:21:44.03 - 00:21:58.219 

 I don't think I actually bought a newspaper more than I I think I possibly bought one once in the in the last five years Um and I'm sorry to say I haven't bought a copy of the of the you know the evening news

Simon Sansbury:

00:22:00.869 - 00:22:05.459 

 Probably in the last 15 years Um so you know that's the struggle that

Simon Sansbury:

00:22:06.0 - 00:22:08.849 

 the local news companies um

Simon Sansbury:

00:22:09.5 - 00:22:36.839 

 like the news are are facing um at the same time technology moves on at the same time they they're funding you know they're they're basically trying to find a way to to fund it It's obviously a constant You know you and I have spoken often about the frustration of of ads on on um news websites but I But if you're not paying someone else has to So you know there's there's gotta be a way that they can you know they can make their bread and butter But it's just not the way that that that we print things anymore even

Simon Sansbury:

00:22:36.989 - 00:22:41.92 

 and we don't really predominantly absorb our news on a piece of dead tree

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:22:42.229 - 00:23:06.319 

 No no And and you know it's fascinating looking back you know I remember sort of for and this is 40 years ago where you know as well as the evening news on a Saturday the news would produce AAA paper called the Sports Mail on pink paper and um you know it It was a case of And this you know gives you an idea of how the

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:23:06.449 - 00:23:12.81 

 you know how the world has changed So their their kind of objective was that that they would get

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:23:13.319 - 00:23:42.339 

 the paper printed out and into newsagents after the Pompey game had finished Um and before the newsagent closed uh sort of you know they had this sort of 90 minute window And I remember as a boy being sent down to the the newsagent Uh you know you didn't go too soon cos if you went at six o'clock the paper wouldn't be there And if you went at 25 past six it was a race to get there before they closed at half six

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:23:42.93 - 00:24:08.339 

 you know to to get the sports mail And when you look at that now you think you know Wow What What an endeavour Um you know to to try and to try and get that into the hands of people um in in such a narrow window So yeah I think the world has has changed and moved on and um yeah I think we're we're we're I don't think we're ever going back So um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:24:08.9 - 00:24:26.81 

 so let's look ahead Tuesday the grand budget meeting which is as we we said last year was um was all very harmonious Um you've been casting your eye over you know uh what's on the agenda for For this uh this Tuesday

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:24:27.65 - 00:24:44.489 

 Uh uh Let let me could I Could I just gently gaze into my crystal ball and and without having done the research would the council be suggesting a 4.99% council tax rise this year It's

Simon Sansbury:

00:24:44.5 - 00:24:53.239 

 amazing Ian It's It's um it's like you've read my notes Or just remember from from the last I can't remember how many years

Simon Sansbury:

00:24:53.939 - 00:25:08.88 

 Um how many years it's been since the uh since there wasn't the the the total So the So here's the yes you're you're you're right on the money Um the the the um the slightly expansive answer is um the um

Simon Sansbury:

00:25:09.8 - 00:25:26.599 

 that the the council are allowed to increase the council tax uh by a maximum of 2.99% without having to um have a referendum actually of the of the residents of the city um to allow them to actually increase it by more

Simon Sansbury:

00:25:27.209 - 00:25:53.979 

 Uh but in addition to the 2.99% for the increase in um in the council tax contribution there's also the percentage they're they're allowed to actually um charge a precept for uh for social care Um and the ma and they cha And the maximum for that is um is 2% So that's kind of where that comes from Obviously Overall you've also got the the precepts for the fire and and for the police um which kind of brings it all in into line But it's um

Simon Sansbury:

00:25:55.119 - 00:26:18.54 

 yes is the I is the short answer of that's That's what the game is on Tuesday The The question is will it be like other years where um pretty much everybody understands that this needs to happen because um the financial situation that the Council finds itself in with the um with reductions in um local government funding from uh from central government

Simon Sansbury:

00:26:18.89 - 00:26:40.92 

 Um with the increases in costs that it's that it's found Obviously um you know um all of those increases that businesses and residents have have found with the cost of living crisis that the council won't be immune to So it has to try to cover those while also being alert to the fact that increasing council tax is a is obviously an increase on a bill for for council tax payers Um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:26:41.13 - 00:26:48.43 

 yeah and I think just to cut in there Simon I think you know again whilst I'm being played for I think you know I I If you look at

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:26:48.699 - 00:27:15.29 

 you know if you look at inflation since the last budget you know it's probably averaged out Um you know uh uh closer to double digits than single digits And you know again when you look at some of the key indicators like you know the living wage which you know a lot of either council employees or subcontracted council employees particularly when we're talking about adult social care

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:27:15.599 - 00:27:27.369 

 you know that that rise was the best part of 10% And I if you know the I if in terms of numbers an awful lot of people who are paid by the Council have seen their wages increase by

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:27:28.01 - 00:27:51.9 

 you know double digits then obviously that is has got to lead to some kind of wage inflation because you know if the operator gets a 10% rise and now earns more than the supervisor or the team leader Um so I think I think the vast majority of people kind of recognise that the the council you know their their bills have gone up by

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:27:52.619 - 00:28:02.609 

 you know a significant percentage um and and their ability to increase their income is is limited to 4.99%

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:02.64 - 00:28:19.51 

 Um yeah indeed Um and we won't kind of go through the We won't break out the kind of the line by line on the on the on the budget items But you know essentially that's the That's the odd thing is that with previous council meetings everybody understands that that's the that's the landscape that they're operating in What what seems to be the

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:19.949 - 00:28:26.989 

 the political level of the of the drama in recent uh recent years has been that um there seems to be a

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:27.989 - 00:28:54.209 

 um I wouldn't say merry go round but a kind of a musical chairs of one group or another will um will seem to be offended that they've been left out of so called secret conversations or secret backdoor you know backdoor discussions with with another group on the council that they had had with the administration Um and it kind of just seems a bit Surely everybody can understand that you know who the administration is and you know and everybody can count so they know

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:54.439 - 00:28:58.27 

 how many votes they have and how many votes the opposition parties have And

Simon Sansbury:

00:28:58.869 - 00:29:10.859 

 uh uh and also that that a budget needs to be passed Otherwise the council can't can't do its business and can't do its job O of um all of the all of the mandatory things that it needs to do for the residents of the city

Simon Sansbury:

00:29:11.42 - 00:29:11.979 

 Then

Simon Sansbury:

00:29:12.689 - 00:29:20.189 

 uh do we need the kind of the political But you didn't ask us You know where everybody is Can't you all just sit down and talk it through Is that I don't know

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:29:20.92 - 00:29:48.91 

 Well well I guess that's a chicken and egg discussion isn't it Because the way the numbers work is quite clear isn't it The so The lib Dems are a minority administration but they basically need one of the other three groups And I know there are more than three groups but you know if we look at the major groups the conservatives um the Labour Party and the Portsmouth Independent Party Um if they get the support of any one of those three

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:29:49.369 - 00:30:18.849 

 then their their budget passes it's as simple as that So there is an element of in in purely pragmatic terms you know politically if you're the Lib Dems Yes you could sit down with all three of those groups and you know there are some some some other kind of either non-aligned independent who who you know You you will give you another two or three votes But there's an element of if you do a deal with any one of those three

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:30:19.579 - 00:30:22.78 

 then your budget passes So

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:30:23.31 - 00:30:38.969 

 a And I think this is where you know whilst we won't don't wanna go through everything line by line I think what we saw in last year's debate is the latitude or the wiggle room that anybody that the council has got is very small

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:30:39.569 - 00:30:53.27 

 because you you you kind of you've got to do adult social care You've got to do Children's social care You've got the precepts for the fire and the police You know you've got statutory obligations that you have to fulfil

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:30:53.81 - 00:30:58.02 

 well increasingly when you cut those slices from the pie

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:30:58.78 - 00:31:03.239 

 The segment that's left which we could describe as discretionary spend

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:31:04.3 - 00:31:05.369 

 is really quite small

Simon Sansbury:

00:31:05.479 - 00:31:17.04 

 Yeah indeed And um and and I think that's the you know that's the reality that that everyone seems to be uh seems to be playing to I think

Simon Sansbury:

00:31:18.569 - 00:31:20.979 

 I think obviously um

Simon Sansbury:

00:31:21.699 - 00:31:32.969 

 the budget comes a couple of months before before May's local elections So there's always kind of political um sp uh space to be made on Well these are the things we would have done differently

Simon Sansbury:

00:31:33.56 - 00:31:49.4 

 Um and the administration decided basically didn't didn't want to do what we wanted to do I guess if you have a conversation there's always gonna be things of There are some things that you wanted that we you know that that basically the overall um can't happen

Simon Sansbury:

00:31:49.849 - 00:32:11.829 

 Um and and likewise for every everybody else you can't you know it's It's the art of compromise isn't it It's There are some things that you would have done differently There are some slightly different things in in you know style or substance and and those those can sometimes be kind of made quite a big thing of on on um on political leaflets But but fundamentally you're you're trying to draw from the same

Simon Sansbury:

00:32:12.459 - 00:32:31.51 

 same pot and as you say it's it's it seems to be you're trying to divide up the cake into ever um into you know you're trying to divide up a S a shrinking cake into into actually ever larger pieces which kind of doesn't really work So um I think I've mixed my metaphors thoroughly

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:32:31.52 - 00:32:37.14 

 I think I think you possibly have But I think the key point that we can all agree on is Is that the You know

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:32:37.27 - 00:33:04.16 

 that the we we we use your pie cake metaphor that that that is that isn't getting bigger every year The SE segments being taken out of it are bigger every year and the amount that's left that's discretionary it is is smaller But I think I guess the really big questions which which are the ones that seem to be posed is that you know again it's about those choices of services that you fund and support and those that you don't

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:33:04.38 - 00:33:26.319 

 The other questions that I I think have been posed historically is about you know is there Is there the ability of the council to generate more revenue I think I think there's something in in in in or something we touched on There was something around um council tax charged for second homes Does that appear anywhere It it

Simon Sansbury:

00:33:26.329 - 00:33:32.88 

 does indeed So yes So one of the things that um that's being proposed and one of the things on on the agenda is

Simon Sansbury:

00:33:33.119 - 00:33:54.04 

 um actually about the council Uh the council basically uh So from the first of april it will in 2025 it will be able to levy 100% premium on council tax for um for second homes in the city Um and um that's gonna net about 1.6 million

Simon Sansbury:

00:33:55.02 - 00:34:17.87 

 Um so um that's about nine I need about 9 uh 977 properties So that's quite a That's quite a significant uh kind of addition to to the council expenditure Um sorry council Um uh coppers Um but also the other thing that they um that they're moving forward with was the the other And these were all parts of the um

Simon Sansbury:

00:34:18.168 - 00:34:35.388 

 the levelling up um act that had that had basically come into force that allows councils to charge Uh these um these basically these levies on second homes but also on what it calls substantially empty Um sorry Substantially unfurnished empty properties

Simon Sansbury:

00:34:35.59 - 00:35:01.419 

 Um and previously the the plan had been to charge 100% on homes that have been substantially unfurnished and empty for 2 to 5 years Um but now that's actually come down to from one year Um and that basically that doing that a year earlier is is gonna net um uh about 600 K or so So you know again you know these aren't small and inconsiderable sums that we're

Simon Sansbury:

00:35:01.699 - 00:35:18.969 

 that we're talking about And indeed at at a time when people are struggling to find housing and the cost of housing is you know the is the the supply and demand equation that's that's never more prescient than in an island city that just doesn't have more space Um the you know the the premium

Simon Sansbury:

00:35:19.51 - 00:35:28.55 

 um it you know uh if they've been empty for more than five years it's 200% If it's been empty more than 10 years it's it's uh it's 300% So

Simon Sansbury:

00:35:29.219 - 00:35:35.449 

 if anything that might rather than being a cash generating source that might

Simon Sansbury:

00:35:36.31 - 00:35:45.969 

 perhaps free up some um some empty properties in the city Um you know so either way that kind of helps But from a from a cash perspective Um obviously that's a

Simon Sansbury:

00:35:46.55 - 00:35:52.05 

 you know there's a There's a fair sums there that that kind of goes to help Um but it's

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:35:52.879 - 00:36:10.28 

 the thing that always worries me about those uh and I think I think it is a I think it's a perfectly fair and reasonable tax to charge I do wonder though whether it will be whether it's one of those ethereal taxes which you never quite collect You know if we look at a national level

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:10.439 - 00:36:36.8 

 um you know Labour have been very very vocal about closing the non doom status and how many millions or billions that will raise you know II I There's always a bit of me that says Well I if you are astute enough to manage your tax affairs as a non doom then I'm fairly certain that once that legislation comes in you'll find a different way to manage your tax affairs

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:37.07 - 00:36:52.79 

 Um which means that you won't be paying the millions upon billions of of of pounds and I do worry about this one that you know people do Have you know the second home piece is and I was surprised when you said it was 977 I guess it must be

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:53.3 - 00:37:05.53 

 that there must be certain definitions around the second home because you know I can't believe that in a city the size of ours that people who have a who own a second house

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:37:06.12 - 00:37:31.32 

 and use it for rental purposes you know to generate income for themselves I can't believe there's less than 1000 of those in our entire city So um you know what What As you said what it might do is stimulate some of those properties to come onto the market as people look at it and go Well it was nice to have but you know if that's now gonna be £300 a month council tax for a house I don't live in

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:37:31.709 - 00:37:50.28 

 I I'll liquidate it and sell it So there is a worry for me that that this might be a tax that never you know you give people effectively by saying from the first of April 2025 I wonder how many of those homes will get liquidated onto the market before a penny in tax is ever collected

Simon Sansbury:

00:37:50.469 - 00:38:19.649 

 And I mean I I guess There there's an element of um you know taxation has two results doesn't it Um it drives behaviour and it drives um and it basically creates revenue And there's a sliding scale and a balance between between them of of how much Does what Yeah And just to clarify these would be properties Not that are you know a landlord for example owning a property and renting out these would be someone having for example a second homes for example a holiday home in Portsmouth

Simon Sansbury:

00:38:19.929 - 00:38:31.04 

 Um that isn't um you know isn't uh basically predominantly occupied So it's not one that they would you know would be on the rental market It's It's basically just a

Simon Sansbury:

00:38:31.6 - 00:38:47.77 

 um a home that you would you would you know for example if you've if you're in a situation and plucking out of thin air you you've got a You've got a nice um apartment in Glen Wharf that you you know that you come and you come and spend your your your summers in or or whatever but it's um

Simon Sansbury:

00:38:48.379 - 00:38:49.05 

 so

Simon Sansbury:

00:38:49.59 - 00:39:06.229 

 yeah I I like you say it remains to be seen just how much you know it looks good on paper that these would be able to net these sorts of revenues It remains to be seen uh whether they whether they um whether they will in fact actually net that or just change the behaviour so that people uh people avoid it Um

Simon Sansbury:

00:39:07.36 - 00:39:13.459 

 but it's you know the council is just in a situation where it's just trying to find ways to

Simon Sansbury:

00:39:14.08 - 00:39:21.55 

 um increase its funding in a variety of different ways Um thankfully Portsmouth hasn't hasn't made some of the

Simon Sansbury:

00:39:22.449 - 00:39:42.06 

 or so many or I mean I I'm sure there have been some failures of financial decisions with in you know investing in in commercial markets But it hasn't made some of the catastrophic failures of decisions that other councils have And we're not in a situation where we're having to turn round to the government and say

Simon Sansbury:

00:39:43.04 - 00:39:56.55 

 That's it we've got we we're out of money We've got We've we've got no money left Gov You take over We're we're not You know we're not calling in a section 151 so you don't have to look very far down the down the M 27 for for examples of that

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:39:57.06 - 00:40:15.79 

 Yeah No good use of section 151 No And I think this is whilst you know we we are We are neither of us football lists The classic Portsmouth Southampton Divide does come into play here because you know Southampton City Council is in a world of financial hurt and

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:40:16.02 - 00:40:31.439 

 you know it It it it is it it is Uh if it's not already in that situation it's rapidly heading towards it So I think we do have to acknowledge that you know whilst there is a little bit of political shena gory that will go on And as you say there'll be

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:40:31.729 - 00:40:58.82 

 some some leaflet fodder uh in terms of you know we proposed more money for the tiny Children and the horrid lib Dems said no Or you know the the there is gonna be a bit of that going on I think you know one thing we should be uh and I'm gonna use the word grateful to the whole council for uh over probably the last you know 1015 years is that they have run a balanced budget you know they they have had to

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:40:59.02 - 00:41:05.76 

 you know collectively make difficult decisions about the balance between you know spending an income And

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:41:06.31 - 00:41:08.06 

 we're not Southampton

Simon Sansbury:

00:41:08.59 - 00:41:15.31 

 Yeah for many reasons we should be grateful that we're um we're not Southampton Although I found myself recently visiting it for

Simon Sansbury:

00:41:15.889 - 00:41:18.28 

 for different reasons Um Oh

Simon Sansbury:

00:41:19.05 - 00:41:41.379 

 well no I was thinking of um M My dad's stay in hospital in Southampton General So um so um as as difficult as that was uh to get to But that's a that's a different kind of onions as as some would say so Yeah we It remains to be seen kind of um what happens how long that meeting will be How much of the of the combat so called in the chamber on Tuesday will be

Simon Sansbury:

00:41:41.84 - 00:42:03.83 

 will be faux combat And how much of it will be just kind of acceptance of Look this is a situation there isn't There isn't a magic money tree Um and you know to be honest my council tax increasing by 70 to £90 a year isn't isn't really the end of the world for me But lots of people in the city aren't in that situation And that really will make a difference to them Yeah and

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:03.84 - 00:42:11.37 

 and it's that element of a A as you say it It it it's it it it's that element of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:11.709 - 00:42:40.659 

 you know 5 5% versus 3% I I it it's something we all you know we can all posture about but it's almost I I it it's one of those things that just happened You know when I was a regular rail commuter to work you know it used to drive me mad that every year at the end of January there would be a ah rail prices are gonna go up by X percent And it's like Well yes they are And they were always going to and you know it's not like you didn't know it was coming

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:41.0 - 00:42:45.87 

 And then you know there is that piece where you know they they've gone up by

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:46.52 - 00:42:58.84 

 10 you know by 6% this year And you know you'd wander into the ticket office and you'd pay for your return to hat and find it was like 15 P dearer

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:59.389 - 00:43:03.489 

 And you know whilst 15 P is 15 P and I'd rather have it than not

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:43:04.189 - 00:43:31.09 

 it It wasn't It wasn't gonna change the world or break the bank So you know like like you say if if you are if you're down to your last few coins then obviously any rise is gonna cause you massive pain Um but but I guess it's that element of you know again I If if it's gonna cost you 100 and £50 a year for for a 5% rise then

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:43:31.709 - 00:43:49.84 

 you know £60 a year less if it was only 3% you know £5 a month pound a week Um you know is a deal breaker if you haven't got an extra pound a week but it probably isn't gonna make an enormous amount of difference So anything else shouting out from the agenda

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:43:50.25 - 00:43:52.56 

 that the key highlights

Simon Sansbury:

00:43:52.57 - 00:44:16.409 

 Yeah that's I mean those are those are the kind of the key things I mean there are some projections about kind of the next um three years about um about actually you talked about but um uh about balanced budget about entering into into deficit so there's definitely kind of alarm lights you know flashing Um a A about the continued kind of pre uh pressure on on local government funding

Simon Sansbury:

00:44:16.679 - 00:44:28.949 

 Um and you know accepting Accepting as a given that for the for the uh 2526 financial year that the council is gonna have to find savings of at least of at least a million So

Simon Sansbury:

00:44:29.939 - 00:44:33.05 

 you know you can continue to be innovative

Simon Sansbury:

00:44:33.58 - 00:44:35.479 

 I guess and and continue to find

Simon Sansbury:

00:44:36.31 - 00:44:37.939 

 ways to save But there is a

Simon Sansbury:

00:44:38.949 - 00:45:02.35 

 There has to be kind of a uh uh you you can always in You know there's always something you can find but the but you you ever you the the low hanging fruit the easy stuff is is already been plucked bare Yet now you're kind of looking for the really really kind of hard to do And I and I should imagine like most organisations the stuff that would really drive productivity and efficiency also requires

Simon Sansbury:

00:45:02.979 - 00:45:28.669 

 a a painful level of investment in order to deliver the number of times I think on budgets that they've kicked down the road replacing one computer system or another bearing in mind how awful government institutions seem to be about replacing um computer systems And that's why you know some of them end up retaining systems that are no longer secure or are no longer um maintained by their by their provider that are literally stuff that's knocking around from like the nineties

Simon Sansbury:

00:45:29.169 - 00:45:34.34 

 Um you know that's why cos they ne they're never in a situation where they're able to bite the bullet and say

Simon Sansbury:

00:45:35.02 - 00:45:37.129 

 This is how much it's gonna cost to replace

Simon Sansbury:

00:45:37.709 - 00:45:41.969 

 Yeah and and and actually get that done So it it it kind of becomes a

Simon Sansbury:

00:45:42.709 - 00:46:01.739 

 an ever um an ever kind of painful cycle But um thankfully we've got some really clever and astute people that do that for us and kind of make those make those decisions But we'll see how that conversation goes on Tuesday and see how See how long that meeting lasts What's your what's your thoughts on how long it's gonna be Well

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:46:01.75 - 00:46:09.639 

 we've got we've got you know uh the Mayor Tom Coles is His recent form has been excellent in this regard hasn't it He he definitely

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:46:09.78 - 00:46:15.169 

 channels is in a in a cling on to make sure that the meetings kind of run to time so

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:15.739 - 00:46:21.629 

 he doesn't have to get out of his back left at that Um quite he doesn't swing his back around the around the room

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:46:21.639 - 00:46:29.129 

 so no no But uh III I think we could I'm I'm gonna back Tom Coles and say I reckon we'll be done by half six

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:31.53 - 00:46:54.399 

 Ok um I I must admit I I feel um I I had a feeling of kind of something similar Um but we're going to be seeing our um our our chats with others Maybe they feel that it's that it that it won't be quite as uh as plain sailing Who knows We'll find out and that's what we'll report on next week

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:46:55.389 - 00:47:00.0 

 So you've been listening to the Pompey politics podcast I've been Ian Tiny Morris

Simon Sansbury:

00:47:00.419 - 00:47:11.879 

 and I've been Simon Sansbury So uh do join us our usual time next week Uh where we were reporting on how that full council meeting went and um and whether the drama was

Simon Sansbury:

00:47:12.58 - 00:47:30.35 

 over anticipated or or whether it just turned out to be acceptance of the of the numbers on the page Um but do click those links if you wanna have a look at that meeting and do you remember to um to like us wherever you're listening to us and follow and subscribe Um and we'll see you next week

Simon Sansbury:

00:47:37.79 - 00:47:40.81 

 Thank you for listening to this episode of the Pompey Politics podcast

Simon Sansbury:

00:47:41.469 - 00:47:44.629 

 If you want to make sure you get notifications about upcoming shows

Simon Sansbury:

00:47:45.399 - 00:47:58.8 

 and get to know when we're live We normally broadcast live 6:27 p.m.

on a Sunday evening Then follow US on Facebook at Pompey Politic podcast You can also follow US on Twitter at Pompey Politic one please If you'd like to

Simon Sansbury:

00:47:59.439 - 00:48:17.959 

 feel free to leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts and you can even ask Alexa to play the podcast for you Alexa play the latest episode of the Pompey politics podcast Pompey Politics podcast from Amazon It's easy

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:00:13.689 - 00:00:41.45 

 And welcome to the latest episode of the Pompey politics Podcasts And today we're gonna tackle one of those big issues that affects local politics And no it's not parking or poo They can stay on the uh they can stay on the back burner But today we're gonna have a look at uh one of the really big issues in the housing sector And we're gonna take a glance at houses of multiple occupancy which for those of you who follow on the sort of message boards and the um

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:00:41.9 - 00:00:49.08 

 and the uh the local political forums will know that this has become a really hot topic So Simon what have we got

Simon Sansbury:

00:00:49.77 - 00:01:09.91 

 So um we've got in in in a second We've got a recorded interview with uh Councillor Hugh Mason who's the cabinet member for uh for planning policy Um so we had a um a good chat with him earlier on today Um but we are joined live through the powers of the internet Um Councillor Ben Swan Thank you very much for joining us Ben Thank you for having me

Simon Sansbury:

00:01:10.849 - 00:01:28.75 

 Um uh Yeah So um what we'll do is we'll we'll play that interview Um and then we'll we'll um I'll um I'll build a picture about HMO So houses a multiple occupancy Um and um and then we'll we'll we'll go through that So um so let's get cracking shall we Let's hear what Um let's hear what Hugh had to say

Simon Sansbury:

00:01:34.93 - 00:01:36.849 

 Welcome Hugh And thank you for joining us

Simon Sansbury:

00:01:38.379 - 00:01:40.69 

 Well thank you very much Um so

Simon Sansbury:

00:01:41.339 - 00:01:59.019 

 I guess we we we need to kind of get an idea of of of what Um of what that role means Um so among other things you're the As I said you're the Cabinet member for for planning policy What does that mean And and what does that mean You have responsibility for You are like a planning God How does it What do you What can you do

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:02:00.9 - 00:02:07.589 

 I have oversight for planning I am not the person who sits on the planning committee and makes planning decisions

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:02:07.8 - 00:02:35.52 

 But I have to make sure that planning decisions come timely We've had a period in the past Uh not too distant past When we were running very far behindhand largely because of the nitrate directive and covid Um but I have to make sure that we we've caught up and that we are going forward with normal day to day planning The second thing I have oversight of uh is the construction of the new city plan

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:02:36.08 - 00:03:02.02 

 Uh our last city plan was 2012 and we are producing a new city plan to run to 2040 And so um I have oversight of that Make sure that all the bits fit together make sure that there are no political um minefields that we're straying into Uh make sure that we are meeting the needs as far as we can of the people of Portsmouth

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:03:02.309 - 00:03:19.24 

 And the last thing I have oversight for although it's not technically in the portfolio is the ongoing sea defences Because I've been concerned with sea defences in this city uh for the last 20 years And um I'm looking forward to seeing a good completion of

Simon Sansbury:

00:03:19.25 - 00:03:23.339 

 them Fantastic Well that sounds like a very busy portfolio Thank you Well it it

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:03:23.35 - 00:03:25.13 

 it keeps me out of the pubs

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:03:25.399 - 00:03:49.589 

 Absolutely So what The area we're looking to focus on today Hugh is houses are most multiple occupancy Um and and it seems to be causing quite a lot of concern for residents about the number of them or the density of them Um can you just give us an overview of of what hours you and the planning committee might have to to limit or control their development

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:03:50.1 - 00:04:17.299 

 We've got fairly limited powers But in a preamble what I would say is that we're not going to get rid of HM OS anytime shortly because A there is a shortage of housing in this city and in the surrounding areas And B um the price of housing is such that quite a lot of young people cannot afford to get onto the housing ladder without uh a very long time saving

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:04:17.709 - 00:04:22.39 

 And so a house in multiple occupation It gives them a A

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:04:23.1 - 00:04:24.649 

 a place to be

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:04:25.609 - 00:04:26.19 

 a me

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:04:28.45 - 00:04:36.779 

 a place to be but without uh the additional costs of having to rent a huge flat

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:04:37.41 - 00:04:40.26 

 so that they're with us for the time being

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:04:40.91 - 00:05:05.69 

 Uh a very long time being I would think what powers do We have quite limited powers In most councils They don't have any powers at all they just let them let them happen Here we have What is after an Article four directive which is a technical term uh which we introduced in November 2011 Uh we have quite a lot of um planning limitations

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:05:06.07 - 00:05:21.69 

 so that we will not allow new houses in multiple occupation if within 50 metres of the proposed house in HM proposed HMO there are more than 10% of the houses as HM OS

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:05:22.339 - 00:05:36.94 

 We had thought of uh the possibility of reducing that to 5% but um the Planning Inspectorate the government will not wear that there were a couple of places which for very peculiar reasons because of their um

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:05:37.589 - 00:05:53.079 

 they are seafront areas with a lot of boarding houses Um do have a 5% but I think 10% is as low as we could legally go in in this city And so we try and control it that way Also we um

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:05:54.13 - 00:06:17.559 

 very carefully make sure that the rooms of the right size the facilities are of the right size and S Um since um November we have been sorry September we have been requiring all of the HM OS which are over 3 to 4 people in them to be licenced

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:06:17.989 - 00:06:27.76 

 Until then we only licenced the big ones And now we're licencing them all And that gives us at least uh an entree to make sure that the um

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:06:28.79 - 00:06:47.98 

 properties are in a good condition that they are uh provide the right number of the right amount of facilities that there is the right amount of space for people to live in And so we try and we have some some leeway some powers to regulate them But they are not particularly extensive

Simon Sansbury:

00:06:48.799 - 00:06:57.45 

 Thank you So you can It's almost like you You definitely led into our next question in in your in your response there Hugh So um so

Simon Sansbury:

00:06:57.88 - 00:07:16.179 

 what What needs Um Oh sorry I've got out of So what needs to change um to allow communities and and councils to address bad or or over developed HM OS or or perhaps even as you say remove the remove the need altogether What's the what are the the fixes

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:07:16.339 - 00:07:20.829 

 The long term fix would be to build more flats

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:07:21.04 - 00:07:28.739 

 more more houses to have a bigger housing stock at a price which people can begin to afford

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:07:29.25 - 00:07:32.88 

 Until that happens you are going to have houses in multiple occupations

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:07:33.489 - 00:07:50.01 

 How do we address bad or overdeveloped houses in multiple occupation Well we that is what we're using the licencing system for so that we licence them We make sure that the facilities are good Um that they are not

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:07:50.519 - 00:07:58.989 

 uh over developed So cramming too many people into the space That is um the the tool We have

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:08:00.269 - 00:08:04.339 

 the other thing which we would like to do And

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:08:05.459 - 00:08:14.239 

 this is something which is being proposed to the Planning Inspectorate in our revision of the city plan is

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:08:14.98 - 00:08:44.65 

 that when you increase the number of people living in an HMO if it is in an area where more than 10% of the uh properties are houses in multiple occupation within this 5050 metre radius just increasing this this will not normally be allowed And you'd have to make a very good case to increase the numbers in that house So if you wanted to increase it let's say from five people to eight people

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:08:44.84 - 00:09:04.659 

 um you would have to apply for planning permission which would not normally be granted Now this is something which uh so far as I know other places are not doing But given the pressure in Portsmouth and the pressure of population on housing we think is very sensible in this city

Simon Sansbury:

00:09:05.32 - 00:09:12.599 

 And and you you mentioned that Does that and And forgive me if this is a um an elementary question as a follow up to that

Simon Sansbury:

00:09:13.28 - 00:09:21.909 

 I I if the does that kind of take so most of the housing Uh so the HM OS A lot of them seem to be um

Simon Sansbury:

00:09:22.419 - 00:09:39.64 

 seem to be for double rooms for example But are they then allowed to have a couple living in a in that room therefore doubling You know each room kind of therefore therefore kind of doubling the the occupancy Is that the Is that what you're kind of speaking to there or is it the number of rooms Uh

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:09:39.969 - 00:09:49.099 

 the application is for person Not for for um occupancy Uh the women who occupy uh

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:09:49.83 - 00:10:12.739 

 it's very difficult to to uh police that of course you can hardly walk into a person's bedroom and say Oh there are two of you here this evening Um that's contrary to the rules But uh what the landlords and there are some very good landlords of HM OS be had said Um I know some very good ones Uh what they are are applying for is the number of people in the house

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:10:14.359 - 00:10:20.059 

 they And this is important because the facilities over and above the bedroom the kitchen

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:10:20.19 - 00:10:24.26 

 um any living room is only really for a certain number of people

Simon Sansbury:

00:10:25.619 - 00:10:26.0 

 So

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:10:26.01 - 00:10:47.159 

 Hugh in our in our discussion you know there's been lots of discussions online and and I think people acknowledge the council's attempt to try and sort of regulate and register the HM OS What What would you advise residents to do if they believe that there is an unregistered HMO either close to close to where they live Because I think there were a number of people who

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:10:47.33 - 00:10:55.15 

 who who were quite vocal that although this register exists there are a lot more HM OS out there than perhaps the council know about There are

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:10:55.159 - 00:10:58.4 

 certainly some out there that we don't know about um

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:10:59.049 - 00:11:12.239 

 and if you suspect that and if it is becoming a problem or you see that it will would bring the number in an area above the 10% threshold then let the um

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:11:13.38 - 00:11:43.32 

 the Portsmouth panning authorities no get hold of the city Council Get hold of a city Councillor get hold of anybody that you can lay hands on and make that complaint that this is an unregistered HMO Now some of these places have been HM OS since before we introduced the Article four directive in 2011 and so they have a right to be there even though they are not properly registered But as of September all

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:11:43.95 - 00:11:52.51 

 HM OS should be registered Uh if there are more than three or four people in the 3 to 4 people in them with the City Council

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:11:53.14 - 00:12:00.09 

 and so we would take an interest in that uh as soon as uh it was reported to us

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:12:00.099 - 00:12:13.869 

 Marvellous I think you always a always a very difficult uh difficult area to cover in a city that has many more people living in the in it than perhaps the the infrastructure was uh always designed for

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:12:14.34 - 00:12:14.909 

 Hm

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:12:15.45 - 00:12:25.07 

 Oh yes Well it's more than just the infrastructure It is just that we don't have the space where we can build as many new homes as the

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:12:25.58 - 00:12:39.059 

 the governments Uh would want us to to meet their assessment of how many houses we need We are bound to come well below that for the simple reason we just do not have the space

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:12:40.02 - 00:12:40.349 

 OK

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:12:40.88 - 00:12:59.469 

 now the the spaces we have there are some one or two spaces Obviously you've once heard of Saint James's Hospital Um there'll be more though at some stage there's going to be development on Saint Jo the Saint John's College in South Sea We've still got to work out in detail what we're going to put on the western part

Cllr Hugh Mason:

00:12:59.479 - 00:13:13.669 

 tip But the eastern part of the tip peninsula is is beginning to be developed at the moment Well there are places but we will never be able to approach the the target which the government has set for us It is impossible

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:13:13.69 - 00:13:18.08 

 Thank you Hugh That's uh really appreciate you taking the time Thank you Hugh

Simon Sansbury:

00:13:25.02 - 00:13:26.719 

 Ok so um

Simon Sansbury:

00:13:27.469 - 00:13:51.909 

 so really really useful um interview with with Hugh there Um I just raise AAA couple of points that um So um sadly because of um scheduling um we did We had to prerecords Hughes interview Um but as um Elizabeth's kind of raised in in the comments with the the database itself for the for the HMO register Uh PC C hasn't been updated since since February last year

Simon Sansbury:

00:13:52.14 - 00:14:07.289 

 Um and um she she questioned whether actually it's way W whether it's um possible to cross match that against the against the 2021 census So um we'll certainly ask you whether that's uh whether that's um something that um that that can be done

Simon Sansbury:

00:14:07.489 - 00:14:35.88 

 Um uh um but it certainly kind of raises some points on that just to give a bit more background Sorry Um Ben before we we we we leap into our our questions with yourself we we'd been contacted by um by various uh people who who'd contact us via uh via Facebook Um some of whom quite concerned about the prospects of of HM OS on their street Or indeed um those with um uh with elderly relatives you kind of feel literally feel quite powerless to be able to be able to do something about

Simon Sansbury:

00:14:36.099 - 00:15:00.679 

 um you know a 77 bed HMO Um basically springing up uh springing up next to them on a on A on a normally kind of quiet quiet residential street Um I know some of the things that um that you kind of mentioned there was about the um were about the rules around them Um one of the things that um uh one of our viewers had also brought to our attention was that we'd we'd seen a video for example on YouTube Where uh

Simon Sansbury:

00:15:01.02 - 00:15:28.14 

 a developer talks about um gives their example So this this was actually AAA video Um speaking about 22 developers in Portsmouth We're we're not gonna name them because at the end of the day we we've got no way of knowing what what their developments are like for uh for users or for residents but just to kind of give those as an example of why developers are kind of into this sort of thing They they were citing examples of a uh you know they they'd take a three bed property convert it into a into a seven bed

Simon Sansbury:

00:15:28.479 - 00:15:56.239 

 um HMO charging about £700 a calendar month for each room Um having purchased the property for a you know for around 200,000 spent uh spent a similar amount on uh on updating it and Now That's now It's uh now you know the property's O you know worth over 600,000 But it's gonna be giving a return of you know just under 5000 Um uh a month So quite a quite a sizeable kind of um return Uh but those rules um

Simon Sansbury:

00:15:56.729 - 00:16:11.409 

 um in a 50 metre radius from from the property And these are the examples from um from the um spe specialised planning um information on Portsmouth City Council's website Um and I'll and I'll put a link to that in in a chat in a minute

Simon Sansbury:

00:16:11.77 - 00:16:40.609 

 Um where it talks about 50 metres radius basically from the from the from the front door of the proposed HMO How many Um how many other HM OS are there within that uh 50 metre radius And what are they as a percentage of the number of dwellings Um and if they if that's gonna be 10% then that's an issue that the rules uh the rules don't allow for that Um so it stops that idea Um but it also the rules kind of provide for um

Simon Sansbury:

00:16:40.94 - 00:17:09.26 

 not for basically to allow HM OS to be a maximum of of three in a row Um but also not to sandwich a um another re uh family property So you know if you had your family home uh and you had an HMO on one side an HMO couldn't then be um be put into place Uh couldn't get registration basically in the on on the other Uh on the other side Um because uh because basically that would be um sandwiching uh sandwiching your your family dwelling

Simon Sansbury:

00:17:09.65 - 00:17:32.729 

 Um interestingly enough we also looked at the looked at the database And although a as um as Elizabeth has pointed out hadn't been updated since February last year Um E even on the information that is there um of the 4300 odd HM OS across the city Um 38% of them are in PO five So that's kind of the the south western corner of the corner of the city

Simon Sansbury:

00:17:32.93 - 00:18:01.819 

 And 36% of them are in um are in PO four which is the um south eastern kind of corner of the corner of the city Um and then another 14% That's in PO one So if you think uh PO one is probably um Saint Tom's in the bottom of Nelson if you think kind of council wards whereas uh PO four is the is the bottom of um uh the bottom of sorry Charles Dickens Um and it has got Saint Tom's and probably a bit of uh central south Sea

Simon Sansbury:

00:18:02.359 - 00:18:31.03 

 Um and um and also Saint Jude Uh and then kind of PO five kind of covering a bit a bit of um a bit of central uh central south sea and um east and cranes water Um but yeah the rest of the city uh city um have very you know PO six There's only 2% PO three which is the three wards off the island Um uh so that's Pauls grave cotham Um drain and faring Um cop uh PO cop area is kind of PO three So that about 1%

Simon Sansbury:

00:18:31.17 - 00:18:35.26 

 So it kind of seems that they're all kind of clustered around kind of one part of the city But um

Simon Sansbury:

00:18:35.959 - 00:19:05.79 

 just just kind of speak to that The video that that um we'd we'd been sent as kind of as an example that that kind of speaking to there being a potential in theory Because of that because of the number of properties across the rest of the city that there might be room for another kind of 7 to 8000 OS across the city So um you know trebling the the the kind of the existing number So quite a big thing to to kind of go into there Um did did you have any kind of initial initial thoughts Ben before we get into the questions or

Simon Sansbury:

00:19:06.119 - 00:19:11.959 

 um it feels like quite a long preamble on that one So thank you for bearing with us while we while we kind of got there

Simon Sansbury:

00:19:12.52 - 00:19:13.469 

 No that's fine