Ian

00:00:13.199 - 00:00:28.67 

 Ah all the leaves are brown and the sky is grey As somebody once intoned Welcome to the autumn series of the uh Pompey Politics podcast We had a little bit of a false start at the end of the summer but we are now

Ian

00:00:29.459 - 00:00:34.27 

 back for good to steal another song reference How are you Simon

Simon 

00:00:34.279 - 00:00:40.479 

 I'm all right I'm just glad that we didn't Who was that Was that Backstreet Boys And we'll be back for good No that was he was He's 17

Ian

00:00:40.49 - 00:00:41.409 

 Take that

Simon 

00:00:41.5 - 00:00:44.669 

 Take that Well take that I didn't remember that

Simon 

00:00:45.209 - 00:00:45.95 

 Um

Simon 

00:00:47.209 - 00:00:51.56 

 um so yeah I'm I'm I'm doing OK How was your week What are we doing today

Ian

00:00:52.09 - 00:01:15.86 

 Yeah marvellous Well we're back on today and as the uh as the title suggests we are charging forward But perhaps more slowly and great work with the uh the logo of the EV Charger and the snail I'm sure that was a Children's book I may have read at some point but who knows Things get more confused as time goes on It might be it could do So Yeah So uh

Ian

00:01:16.309 - 00:01:31.23 

 everyone's favourite Unelected Prime Minister Mr Rishi Soak has caught the headlines in the last couple of weeks with a series of announcement relating to um some of the the acceleration towards carbon neutral that had been

Ian

00:01:31.97 - 00:01:56.22 

 Oh God I I live now by his predecessor's predecessor The predecessor minus one was Wasn't here for very long Um so yeah So today we thought we'd um have a look at what exactly had been said and some of the rationale behind it and then pick through the bones as to pragmatic decision Or is there more behind the thinking of uh why we should be

Ian

00:01:56.87 - 00:01:58.069 

 rowing back

Simon 

00:01:58.87 - 00:02:21.509 

 Yeah So um just in case anybody had been um sleeping in a garden shed So last week um the the PM made an announcement Um effectively um while sticking to the uh the 2050 net zero goal um has rolled back rolled back by five years the banning of sales of new um

Simon 

00:02:22.21 - 00:02:34.22 

 car internal combustion engine vehicles So uh new cars that are driven by uh sorry Powered by petrol or diesel Um and also um delayed the the ban on new gas boilers

Simon 

00:02:34.77 - 00:02:47.74 

 Um So um making both of those uh 2035 Um but um stating that that didn't constitute um any diminishing of the aim to get to net zero by 2050

Simon 

00:02:48.47 - 00:03:16.85 

 Um the PM made various sorts of claims Um but essentially that was that was the point that um that was their announcement Um which came a couple of days after after Liz Truss Um if you can remember who she was uh basically got up and said effectively we should row back on a lot of this green stuff Um and um and uh repeated the ever so successful things from last summer's um but mini budget about uh about a low tax economy

Simon 

00:03:17.47 - 00:03:20.589 

 Um it's almost like there was a conservative party conference coming up or something

Ian

00:03:21.21 - 00:03:34.369 

 Well I think that's where we've got a um and we'll go into the detail but we have got to pick the bones out of this in terms of how much of this is um is good sense how much of it makes sense and how much of it is Um

Ian

00:03:35.02 - 00:03:49.07 

 is the pre appetiser for um an upcoming election So I think it's uh I think we we've got our suspicions that um you know when when Liz stood up and said her piece it was uh

Ian

00:03:49.639 - 00:03:59.309 

 it's one of those things where when you see Liz making a speech uh you kind of think Well I guess it's natural that people should listen to an ex prime minister

Ian

00:04:00.0 - 00:04:00.919 

 but some

Ian

00:04:01.74 - 00:04:03.389 

 an ex prime minister that

Ian

00:04:04.02 - 00:04:07.309 

 perhaps didn't do the full shift I am

Ian

00:04:08.0 - 00:04:11.869 

 And let's suggest that her was it 46 days

Ian

00:04:12.899 - 00:04:14.08 

 Was it 49

Simon 

00:04:14.089 - 00:04:14.839 

 or 47

Ian

00:04:16.97 - 00:04:42.67 

 We'll call it 50 for cash We we We're not perhaps the most successful period in prime ministerial history So So yeah interesting that she should be looking to to set the agenda and perhaps or or try and influence the agenda from shall we say the more radical side of the Conservative Party So I think in the style of Chris Whitty you might have the slides there

Ian

00:04:43.2 - 00:04:48.82 

 Um that the PM used to explain the show is working out I I

Simon 

00:04:49.339 - 00:05:05.239 

 I do indeed So I've got some slides So for those listening to the podcast I will attach them I will attach the link to them um so that you can follow along at home as it were But those of you watching the watching the stream or watching it back on Facebook YouTube

Simon 

00:05:05.839 - 00:05:30.94 

 Uh Twitter LinkedIn twitch Where else Anywhere else Can't think of anywhere else Um so you um yes Please do Like follow Subscribe Send cake Uh basically but yes I have I have some slides So um so Yeah so the PM kind of started it Started his speech saying that um this wasn't going to impact our ability to deliver net zero so interesting that he made he made that um made that statement at the outset

Simon 

00:05:31.209 - 00:06:01.14 

 Uh I think cos that would probably have been a um been the first thing that um that people would have been concerned about But the first slide was saying that the UK Has reduced emissions faster than any other major economy Um that graph basically was showing a comparison between 1990 the 2020 climate watch uh figures uh that are available online and I'll share the and I'll share the link to those um in in the comments Um but essentially um the rest of the G7 um the average for them was minus 8% but There will be some countries that

Simon 

00:06:01.6 - 00:06:21.17 

 have delivered more than that They're obviously I impinged by the um by some of the not so um not so proactive countries But the UK Has indeed compared to 1990 reduced its emissions by 48% So that does mean that we've done quite well Um done very well really Um to reduce them by nearly nearly 50%

Simon 

00:06:21.66 - 00:06:37.48 

 Um but that does mean that we're still adding um greenhouse gases to the atmosphere And that doesn't mean that we're still contributing to global warming So just to kind of set the set the parameters of net zero is about the point at which you stop making it worse

Ian

00:06:38.16 - 00:06:54.89 

 Yes and I think that's where you know again there's always lies damn lies And then there are statistics aren't there Which is that you know we we've done 48% and the average for the other seven I I is 8% and and again you you kind of look at that and think Well

Ian

00:06:55.82 - 00:07:17.89 

 you know it it it is an interesting way of looking at it because the other G7 in terms of their emissions they not all animals are equal in that seven And you know if some of the smaller contributors have made really big strides But some of the bigger contributors perhaps haven't made such good strides That brings the

Ian

00:07:18.089 - 00:07:29.32 

 the average as a whole down So as with all statistics and I know I don't have to explain this to you as a liberal Democrat and producer of bar charts you know sometimes

Simon 

00:07:29.38 - 00:07:31.41 

 you I claim no ownership of any bar

Ian

00:07:32.269 - 00:07:47.359 

 but But sometimes you you choose your statistics to make you look good But I think you know the the the I think I think it would be fair to say that all parties do that You know the the 48% are halving in 30 years It is a is a great leap forward

Ian

00:07:47.619 - 00:08:05.529 

 Um and it's better than the average So and uh I think it's fair to say is that climate Watch are independent and you know are not a government think tank so we can trust their stats to be to be good and honest So haven't we done well so far as his opening slide

Simon 

00:08:06.1 - 00:08:15.709 

 Yes So the uh So the next slide um is um basically um the UK share of global emissions has fallen below uh below 1%

Simon 

00:08:15.989 - 00:08:30.769 

 which is indeed true Uh but for the 2020 figures the UK Is at 0.8 0.87% of the contributors uh to um to global greenhouse gases So that that is indeed correct with 22nd

Simon 

00:08:31.299 - 00:08:52.659 

 um of 100 and 98 countries Um in the contributors to that So that still puts us in the you know the you know way up in the in the top Um in the top 20 as in worst 20 you you might say um but it's there's other stuff that goes like obviously countries are of varying sizes but also there are varying

Simon 

00:08:53.289 - 00:09:11.01 

 um sizes of population but also of varying sizes of of actual contribution to to the problem But yes Um I in a sense we are less than 1% of the we Our contribution to the increase in greenhouse gases is less than what is less than 1% of the global total gas

Ian

00:09:11.729 - 00:09:17.96 

 Yep So another another solid statistic that is we are doing nicely Thank you

Simon 

00:09:18.159 - 00:09:18.559 

 Yeah

Simon 

00:09:19.2 - 00:09:30.5 

 Um the next one the UK committed to reducing emissions faster than every other major economy Um it's interesting that um and it it's interesting that

Simon 

00:09:31.289 - 00:09:56.989 

 the phrasing there that we committed to reducing emissions it's not we have or we did or we will It's we've committed So it's almost like we were the fastest at saying that we were going to reduce them By what And it doesn't talk about the amount and by when so I don't know it's It's a strange choice of sentence Um but But the other thing there was interesting is that other major economies But in this bar chart we're being compared to Germany France

Simon 

00:09:57.169 - 00:10:11.2 

 Australia USA Japan Russia New Zealand Canada and the EU which of course also includes Germany and France Um but bless him I would never have thought that New Zealand was a major economy

Ian

00:10:11.609 - 00:10:26.7 

 No and again a little bit selective isn't it In terms of you You You you pick your sample That makes you look best I you know you look at some there's there's New Zealand on the list I don't see one for I I

Ian

00:10:26.94 - 00:10:44.88 

 would rather have seen perhaps India and Brazil on that graph Um but but um you know maybe those numbers didn't so again better than some other major players Um better perhaps than some minor players But again it's starting to look a little bit more

Ian

00:10:45.989 - 00:10:49.08 

 Shall I use the phrase statistically selective

Simon 

00:10:49.39 - 00:11:00.88 

 Yeah they've They've They've definitely chosen the comparison and interestingly this one that they quote their source as internal department for energy security and net zero calculations Um so it

Ian

00:11:00.89 - 00:11:07.95 

 could be that could be the the net zero calculation Somebody could have got the NZ muddled up And that's why New

Simon 

00:11:08.02 - 00:11:12.169 

 Zealand And that's why New Zealand are there Indeed that that that could entirely be it

Simon 

00:11:12.5 - 00:11:13.65 

 And so

Ian

00:11:13.659 - 00:11:22.32 

 So somebody said to make sure you include NZC and somebody will Oh New Zealand country I better stick that on the graph Yeah I think that's what happened

Simon 

00:11:23.02 - 00:11:23.859 

 Definitely

Simon 

00:11:24.409 - 00:11:27.289 

 Um so the the next slide was about

Simon 

00:11:27.799 - 00:11:53.909 

 the UK is set to have one of the lowest emissions per capita of any major economy Um so in this one the UK is is is shown as um interestingly the the vertical um axis on this one The scale has got some numbers from from 0 to 14 but it doesn't say what they're measuring Um it shows the UK um in lovely almost rainbow colours uh nearest the axis But then basically everyone else kind of after that in increasing

Simon 

00:11:54.169 - 00:12:20.539 

 levels of whatever the bars are meant to be Um but we're being in this one compared to Brazil the EU Japan Argentina China USA Canada and Australia Um I I don't know that we I mean Brazil's the 11th country in the world by uh by GDP Um we're the sixth So what are you Um when you're saying a major economy I do I don't know that um

Simon 

00:12:21.58 - 00:12:45.57 

 that those would be the ones that you'd pick necessarily I mean obviously the USA and Canada The USA is currently the the world's largest economy Sorry And China is the second largest Um but um yeah Australia is the 12th Um Canada is the ninth um Argentina Where did where are Argentina They're the 22nd largest economy in the world by GDP

Ian

00:12:46.02 - 00:12:49.109 

 So Yeah and they they seem the odd one to to to

Ian

00:12:49.409 - 00:13:06.489 

 to sort of throw into the mix And I think that this is where you know some of these things when you start to to look at them and you know when you when you look at things like per capita you know and the UK is A is a pretty densely populated

Ian

00:13:07.02 - 00:13:24.229 

 country On the whole you know there are big bits of it that perhaps aren't so much But when you look at a you know you try doing that comparison with somewhere like you know India or Russia Um not the same And But then the flip side to that is

Ian

00:13:24.82 - 00:13:46.39 

 you know particularly in somewhere like India you know living standards in big cities very similar to a western economy but great swathes of the country Um possibly you know different expectations and different levels of pollution so or of carbon

Ian

00:13:47.53 - 00:13:57.4 

 you know O of carbon emissions So I I think these these you know again they're looking to paint a good story to set up the reveal aren't they Um

Simon 

00:13:57.409 - 00:14:16.109 

 they they are So I mean again this is saying per capita of any major economy Um So I compared the GDP figures against the 2020 figures from Climate watch Uh per capita um and actually of the of the top 25 countries by GDP

Simon 

00:14:16.469 - 00:14:43.51 

 Um the the UK Um um the U K's um emissions per per capita Um of the 25 there are actually uh 2468 10 There were 10 that have actually got a lower um emissions per capita than we have Um one of whom India is actually a larger um economy than than ours Um their fifth in GDP

Simon 

00:14:43.789 - 00:15:00.299 

 um France which is just behind us as seventh in GDP Um also so yeah even in the even In the top 10 there are There are three other countries in the top 10 that have by GDP that have actually lower um lower emissions per capita So um

Simon 

00:15:00.57 - 00:15:14.109 

 so that's obviously the 2020 figures which was the latest set of figures actually on Climate watch Um but it's also interesting that the that the statement here is UK is set to have one of the lowest emissions per capita of any major economy

Ian

00:15:16.669 - 00:15:22.76 

 You know it's another forward looking statement and I think the 2020 data is clearly showing us that you know

Ian

00:15:23.729 - 00:15:32.75 

 the UK is kind of you know above the midpoint in the top half of the table but not not pushing for medal places at this point Not

Simon 

00:15:32.76 - 00:15:47.69 

 not not by a long shot not by not by capita Um and and also it's It's a bit like saying my budget is lower than your budget Well your budgets saying how low your budget is compared to someone else's even if that were the case is one thing But it's actually really how much you spend

Ian

00:15:47.7 - 00:15:51.429 

 right Correct correct Next slide

Simon 

00:15:51.89 - 00:16:15.369 

 So the so the last slide people will be glad to hear before this turns into um death by PowerPoint Um so the last slide is is uh basically the U K's new transition to EVs is in line with other major uh major countries So their choice of word countries Um so our old goal was 2030 Um so um the likes of Norway Denmark Iceland and Singapore are uh uh are going for 2030

Simon 

00:16:15.609 - 00:16:32.039 

 whereas the 2035 is now obviously the UK They've put a nice red circle around that just to help us In case we weren't sure what country we're in Um but also France Germany Sweden Spain California Canada New York Massachusetts and Queensland Austra Queensland Australia

Simon 

00:16:32.88 - 00:16:33.799 

 Um

Simon 

00:16:34.33 - 00:16:36.169 

 I don't know how good your geography

Ian

00:16:36.84 - 00:17:02.179 

 Well it's good enough to know that that some of those places are are not countries Um and it's interesting that that 2030 list you know again you know the three Nordic countries in Singapore and you know without wishing to bore the listeners to you know I I member of my team went to live in Singapore and um realised that um

Ian

00:17:02.719 - 00:17:19.8 

 before you can own a car in Singapore you first have to purchase a licence to own a car Um and that those those come up for auction periodically So you you've got to put about £50,000 down to buy one of the licences and bear in mind this was probably 10 years ago

Ian

00:17:20.349 - 00:17:48.64 

 and once you've got the licence then you can go and buy a car Um so you know there is an element of because Singapore is an extremely small island Um lots of people go there but it's tax advantageous nature so it doesn't surprise me that they are that the the part of their challenge in terms of EVs will not be all EVs are slightly more expensive than petrol cars Because when you've got to put down

Ian

00:17:49.099 - 00:18:17.609 

 a significant sum on the table just to be able to purchase one I don't think that's going to be a problem for them So I guess we didn't We didn't spell it out But this this slide does is that so That deadline for the end of the sale of new petrol and diesel combustion engines has now gone back five years from 2030 to 2035 So should we focus in on the on the EV thing first in in terms of

Ian

00:18:18.17 - 00:18:22.0 

 bad thing Good thing

Ian

00:18:22.79 - 00:18:24.92 

 too soon to tell Um

Simon 

00:18:24.93 - 00:18:29.569 

 well he's surprised Well he he here's the thing is that um

Simon 

00:18:30.38 - 00:18:59.04 

 and it and it's worth kind of it's worth saying that different uh different people responded responded um to it in in a variety of ways to be fair So it wasn't universally either universally championed or or derided So um the um the Labour shadow Environment Secretary um Steve Reed uh basically said that uh So um Richie had uh sold out the the biggest economic opportunity of the of the 21st century

Simon 

00:18:59.27 - 00:19:11.01 

 Um and that recall the UK to to to miss its net zero target Um Lib Dem leader sed Davy Um called it selfish Um and uh and um and it epitomises his weakness

Simon 

00:19:11.55 - 00:19:18.5 

 Um the Scotland's first Minister Um humza Yousef um called it utterly unforgivable

Simon 

00:19:19.02 - 00:19:45.319 

 Um and um yeah so uh even um Chris Stark the chief executive of the U K's Independent Climate Change Committee Um wasn't um wasn't exactly glowing and basically said that um he they'd already advised the the the government that that we weren't on track actually to um to meet the 2030 emission targets So that's the milestone to actually deal with the emission targets towards uh 2050

Simon 

00:19:46.239 - 00:20:11.859 

 on the other Coming out in um with their cheering pompoms um raising instead of their booing Um Jacob Rees Mogg um basically seemed to think that it was a great idea Um and that having regulations coming in so quickly um isn't isn't uh isn't a great thing Um and that um moving with the moving to something he called intelligent net zero I don't know

Simon 

00:20:12.79 - 00:20:20.8 

 how something can be an intelligent no not funny It's either net zero or it isn't I don't know what caveat he's trying to introduce there Um

Simon 

00:20:21.479 - 00:20:48.189 

 it gives me shivers about the whole thing about lukewarm Brexit cold Brexit Um but um yeah you know net zero is net zero right It's just maths Um So um yeah um and even um sir Alex Sharma Um who was who Who was the conservative minister who chaired the cop 26 Climate summit Uh in which a lot of the original um targets were were set and agreed

Simon 

00:20:48.699 - 00:21:02.369 

 um reported to the BBC that um the response from international colleagues at um cos he was um he was at a climate action summit which funny enough um Rishi Soak had declined to attend Um

Simon 

00:21:03.069 - 00:21:07.25 

 that the response from international colleagues was one of consternation

Simon 

00:21:07.79 - 00:21:35.979 

 The car maker Kia um said that it alters complex supply chain No no negotiations and product planning Um while potentially contributing to consumer and industry confusion Um the chief executive of Aeon um said that um it was a misstep on on many levels um and talked about the the the the false argument that that the moving to green policies um can only come at a cost Um whereas Jackie a Land Rover

Simon 

00:21:36.449 - 00:21:45.64 

 um who had recently announced actually hundreds of um new jobs in the West Midlands Yep Um they seem to think that it was a pragmatic change

Simon 

00:21:46.339 - 00:21:48.05 

 Um as did Toyota

Ian

00:21:48.51 - 00:21:58.76 

 Well and and I think that that's where I am I I'm I am wondering about this announcement in terms of

Ian

00:21:59.79 - 00:22:02.0 

 whether this is

Ian

00:22:02.64 - 00:22:22.599 

 an announcement of a change of policy or it is in fact a recognition that you were never gonna hit it anyway Um because II I you know I I found the whole electric car discussion

Ian

00:22:23.829 - 00:22:36.14 

 and the end of the internal combustion engine for sale It does throw up so many conundrums in terms of

Ian

00:22:36.67 - 00:22:37.56 

 of

Ian

00:22:38.089 - 00:22:41.469 

 you know the the vehicle owning public

Ian

00:22:42.56 - 00:22:46.68 

 How pragmatic is it to own an electric vehicle

Ian

00:22:47.969 - 00:22:50.939 

 And I think a city like Portsmouth is the

Ian

00:22:51.469 - 00:22:54.089 

 is the kind of perfect example because

Ian

00:22:54.979 - 00:23:06.949 

 you know we have let let's you know if we focus on you know what is the you know one of the most favourite topics to get everybody frothed up in Portsmouth

Simon 

00:23:08.329 - 00:23:13.16 

 Well well you you're talking potholes parking or poo Aren't you a dog poo

Ian

00:23:13.17 - 00:23:19.38 

 potholes parking or poo and parking being You know we have so many

Ian

00:23:19.89 - 00:23:24.65 

 you know flat fronted houses that were built before cars were a thing

Ian

00:23:25.17 - 00:23:32.479 

 And so when I look at that and I think about the the pragmatic nature of owning an electric vehicle

Ian

00:23:33.17 - 00:23:36.099 

 seven years to fix that

Ian

00:23:37.5 - 00:23:51.449 

 now 12 years to make that viable And I know it's not 12 years because there's an element of that's when the new ones aren't being sold and there'll be a phase out of the old ones But

Ian

00:23:51.989 - 00:23:55.579 

 I do wonder how pragmatic

Ian

00:23:56.439 - 00:24:01.31 

 in a city like Portsmouth will it be to own a car

Ian

00:24:02.439 - 00:24:04.66 

 if you need to charge it electrically

Simon 

00:24:06.319 - 00:24:11.39 

 Um I don't know I mean how would I mean what was your recent experience like with um

Ian

00:24:11.489 - 00:24:14.449 

 so I still own an electric car

Ian

00:24:15.01 - 00:24:19.949 

 Um so I I went fully electric Um and

Ian

00:24:20.459 - 00:24:23.339 

 I am going to be giving it back

Ian

00:24:24.03 - 00:24:37.25 

 not because of its electric nature It's a long story which I won't bore you with on the podcast But what I learned was that in terms of owning an electric vehicle I'm very fortunate I live in costs I have a hard standing so

Ian

00:24:37.8 - 00:25:06.829 

 I can plug my electric vehicle in overnight to recharge and it's very very cheap to to run If you can recharge it from your house to put it into context My previous BMW cost me about 22 P a mile to run and if I charge my electric overnight it costs me just over a penny a mile to run so effectively all of the round town driving that we do

Ian

00:25:07.04 - 00:25:13.25 

 is free It's that way It's not free But do you know what I mean It is It is a handful of copper coins

Ian

00:25:15.26 - 00:25:25.01 

 but the problem comes when you look further a field when you have to travel as I do with work So this week we've got a 250 mile round trip

Ian

00:25:25.91 - 00:25:42.92 

 and the range on my battery is nominally 273 miles Now you can't run it that close because it's not like having a petrol car where you know you look at it and go Oh we're getting a bit tight We'll just nip into the petrol station and stick a tenner in

Ian

00:25:43.8 - 00:25:51.26 

 it It is a case of you have to plan where you're gonna charge your car and you've got to

Ian

00:25:51.79 - 00:26:00.339 

 you You try and plan those stops but currently the number of charges that are available are relatively small in number

Ian

00:26:01.439 - 00:26:08.81 

 and often they're either full with other people charging or they're broken

Ian

00:26:09.54 - 00:26:18.89 

 So you know you've got you've got the map in your mind that you've thought through and you say Well OK you know we'll have about 80 miles left When we get there we'll stop and charge there

Ian

00:26:19.579 - 00:26:38.589 

 and you find that Oh actually you know there's two cars and these th This is not a This is not a nip in the petrol station Stand there for a minute and a half You know you you've got to plan a 20 minute stop and you turn up and there are four cars queued up Well that either means you're gonna be sat about for an hour

Ian

00:26:39.13 - 00:26:42.709 

 or you go on to the next one So the infrastructure at the moment

Ian

00:26:43.64 - 00:26:50.28 

 doesn't feel ready for the number of electric vehicles that there are out there in the wild at the moment

Ian

00:26:51.0 - 00:26:54.4 

 And so I I just um

Ian

00:26:55.67 - 00:26:59.63 

 am confused as to how we would get to

Ian

00:27:00.829 - 00:27:12.089 

 a position where it wouldn't become something that you would have to think about and or plan and or become hugely inconvenienced by

Simon 

00:27:13.04 - 00:27:23.17 

 Yeah and I and I think I mean there was I mean interestingly there I mean there were There weren't any details released yet but um but the PM kind of mentioned something else in his speech about talking about

Simon 

00:27:23.689 - 00:27:34.01 

 the frustrations Uh with regarding kind of network connections Um and therefore kind of um you know the the about how much of an impact that is on kind of slowing things down

Simon 

00:27:34.53 - 00:27:57.319 

 Um but it seems that the so the so the argument kind of that that the PM was making was a was about th this is um imposing a you know 2030 would have would have imposed a cost on people that that can't afford it Cost of living crisis Um the very people that um you'd want to be able to actually um tra you know transition over over to EV would be effectively kind of priced out of it

Simon 

00:27:57.67 - 00:28:15.989 

 Um II I don't know I must admit I mean I mean kind of two minds about that because one part of me thinks that the only way to actually drive and the pun is entirely intentional If you the only way to kind of really drive down the cost of something is is to ensure mass adoption

Simon 

00:28:16.479 - 00:28:45.819 

 Um and by mo removing the the the the point at which um new car sales needed to be That type of technology meant that it means that O on one hand yes it gives um you know it gives installers and network providers and manufacturers um longer lo uh a a greater period of time an extra five years in order to kind of arrive at at what they need to arrive at But from a point of view of

Simon 

00:28:46.54 - 00:28:55.0 

 it driving down the cost to uh to buy a new um a new EV um that's only really gonna actually come

Simon 

00:28:55.569 - 00:29:08.609 

 when actually it becomes a mass adoption thing anyway Um but it's also worth not skipping over the the the I I think the argument about well it's just pricing people out of being able to move over to EVs But

Simon 

00:29:08.969 - 00:29:37.25 

 regardless of whether they were EVs whether were they people that would have likely have been buying a new car a brand new car anyway um cos you know the the the law was never about stopping second hand car sales or um second user on onward car sales This was about brand new car sales Um so in one hand the the PM is kind of making a point of Well actually market forces will again drive that cos in what 2016

Simon 

00:29:37.39 - 00:30:06.839 

 EV and um and hybrid car sales were something like 1.6% of new car sales Whereas actually um in 2022 there were 23% of of new car sales So you know I is he looking at that graph and seeing that actually eventually they will naturally be more than 95% and therefore there won't be a market for petrol driven cars and therefore people would just stop selling them anyway So I Is he moving with that argument

Ian

00:30:07.05 - 00:30:33.15 

 I I think so Simon Because I think the direction of travel And I think it showed on that last slide that the majority you know are look or or a significant number of countries are looking at this 2035 deadline which is where he's moved the goalpost to Now there is an element of you know again if you can afford to purchase a new car and and you know I I lease my cars Um

Ian

00:30:33.43 - 00:30:40.099 

 so there is an element of when you're looking at petrol versus hybrid versus electric

Ian

00:30:40.609 - 00:30:55.63 

 The the The simple answer is if you do a lot of miles and you can charge you know not a ridiculous amount of miles and you can charge your car at home then electric actually makes good financial sense because it is so cheap to run

Ian

00:30:56.239 - 00:30:56.869 

 a me

Ian

00:30:57.53 - 00:31:11.229 

 the the challenge is that you know it is still a much more expensive car Um you know when you compare it at the moment to its its petrol counterpart So you do have this situation where

Ian

00:31:11.77 - 00:31:41.55 

 you know the new car market I I think you know that entry point It is coming down to your point about market forces Um you know those orig some of those original you know when you were paying effectively £50,000 for a small family hatchback you know when it's petrol equivalent was probably £20,000 That gap is narrowing but I think there is still a piece that says and it's the bit which I can't get straight in my own mind

Ian

00:31:42.04 - 00:31:43.14 

 which is that

Ian

00:31:43.81 - 00:31:55.729 

 when will co you know will it actually end up being counterproductive because you've got a situation where I don't see how somewhere like Cooper

Ian

00:31:57.069 - 00:31:59.739 

 you know or Buckland

Ian

00:32:00.989 - 00:32:09.4 

 could ever be in a position Buckland's probably a bad idea because car ownership is low there But how could you possibly ever have a functioning infrastructure

Ian

00:32:10.579 - 00:32:13.18 

 that would allow people to

Ian

00:32:13.989 - 00:32:24.989 

 to effectively charge you know cos we're talking about overnight charging How would they charge their cars overnight or their place of work Their car park

Ian

00:32:25.51 - 00:32:35.76 

 would need to have a charging point almost at every space And I know when I spoke to the head of estates for the organisation I work for and said Oi when are you putting in

Ian

00:32:36.329 - 00:32:48.28 

 charging points on all of our sites His answer was Well I'm not I can't because I simply can't get the electrical infrastructure to the site to allow me to do that

Ian

00:32:49.069 - 00:33:06.199 

 So I I'm I'm you know th this has actually set me thinking much more about Is it going to be a case of the last of the internal combustion engine Cars will be nursed and loved and the price is kept high

Ian

00:33:07.239 - 00:33:09.979 

 because all the time you're allowed to

Ian

00:33:11.229 - 00:33:14.43 

 you know rather than driving Maybe a three year old car

Ian

00:33:15.189 - 00:33:20.939 

 You're going to keep driving a 10 year old petrol electric car in 2045 because

Ian

00:33:21.839 - 00:33:24.479 

 you've still got no way to to

Ian

00:33:25.17 - 00:33:27.229 

 to charge that car effectively

Simon 

00:33:27.849 - 00:33:53.78 

 I I think Well I think there's several There's several barriers there and and and originally when we discussed this episode we wanted to We wanted to get someone from the EV charging industry industry on and we wanted to get some uh someone on the that thought it was a great idea and someone that that didn't think um this delay was a was a great idea and talk kind of around those points But unfortunately we we weren't able to to secure um all of the guests So we decided it was best just to have a

Simon 

00:33:53.93 - 00:34:10.638 

 editorial episode where we we will talk it through ourselves rather than just have one guest who was taking one point of view and then then us trying for um for purposes of conversation to kind of thrash out the others But II I think there I think there are practical elements about that So from a perspective of

Simon 

00:34:11.678 - 00:34:26.11 

 you know if if you if you're managing a project and there's a particular there are particular pinch points um in your delivery of of that project and you know still that you can't change Actually the overall the overarching um end point of delivery

Simon 

00:34:26.459 - 00:34:52.189 

 Um but there are some milestones that you can move along the way Uh essentially that That's what Soak's done isn't it He's He's moved He's moved these milestones Um it was interesting that um that Jaguar Land Rover having last week um or whenever it was saying you know said themselves that they were gonna invest loads of money in in basically um uh an EV factory that they weren't then bruised by this um this announcement So So in some respects if

Simon 

00:34:52.489 - 00:35:04.679 

 yeah I I can get the your manufacture the car manufacturing industry Um where we the only potential if you think from an economy perspective um

Simon 

00:35:05.31 - 00:35:34.989 

 benefit And and here I am trying to play Devil's advocate is that was there was there Was there any industry benefit of going five years ahead of the EU Because in that respect would that mean that the manufacturers could potentially have chosen the UK as a site on which to uh manufacture their cars or at least manufacture a large um at least a part of their vehicles that they were then assembled in the EU So they didn't have import taxes or or whatever However that arrangement would have meant would it Would it have been a shoe in That would have got

Simon 

00:35:35.179 - 00:35:51.31 

 the UK to a point where we became a natural point a natural place for that investment to take place because we were moving five years earlier than than the rest of the continent Um that that was maybe that that was kind of an argument for that But Jaguar Land Rover's response doesn't seem to

Simon 

00:35:52.09 - 00:35:56.35 

 seem to kind of you know um kind of kind of back that up So I think

Simon 

00:35:57.06 - 00:36:00.08 

 I think there's Yeah sorry Go on Well

Ian

00:36:00.09 - 00:36:09.03 

 I think the carmakers are an interesting bunch aren't they Because there is an element of that Their job is to sell the public cars

Ian

00:36:09.929 - 00:36:18.909 

 and there is an element of that They they they've got a very CL you know 30 35 is is a clear direction of travel

Ian

00:36:19.78 - 00:36:46.78 

 and there's an element of you know that that change that you described in seven years from sort of What was it 1 2% to 23% says that the tide is heading that way Anyway I think there is this piece where if you you know I if the models that you're bringing through are fully electric and or hybrid then I I think you you've got a strong

Ian

00:36:47.169 - 00:36:58.31 

 You've got a very strong sales pitch to sell those cars you know because I think there is an element of and this is where it's interesting to understand how what the public perception of this is

Ian

00:36:58.84 - 00:37:03.969 

 You know there are people who you know if the product is good enough

Ian

00:37:04.78 - 00:37:11.959 

 and the the person buying the product thinks well quote unquote I'm doing my bit

Ian

00:37:12.82 - 00:37:22.08 

 then given the choice between a petrol or diesel or a hybrid or an electric I I think pe people are naturally gonna self select

Ian

00:37:22.6 - 00:37:26.86 

 towards the hybrid or the electric I if they can make that work for them

Simon 

00:37:27.62 - 00:37:32.82 

 Well I mean there's that there's that side of the argument Um

Simon 

00:37:33.56 - 00:37:39.449 

 I just think that you know I can't can't help but keep coming back to the

Simon 

00:37:40.07 - 00:38:07.389 

 actually if the if the law requiring the basically saying that you could you you had to stop selling um internal combustion engine vehicles Um means that everyone has to do it You you are then forcing the industry wholesale to to change and therefore all of the new new vehicles If that's it's almost like it doesn't it almost contradicts itself in that way Because actually if in the space of those those seven years we've gone from 1.6% to 23%

Simon 

00:38:07.739 - 00:38:21.07 

 uh and therefore in the in in the next seven years are we going to go basically go from that 23% up to up to 100% Or you know probably you know 90 95% Um quite probably In which case why move it back

Ian

00:38:21.85 - 00:38:31.419 

 Well because I think there is this element of and that's where I think this tipping point comes Simon which is that the infrastructure can't cope

Ian

00:38:32.239 - 00:38:43.37 

 and you know there there will be that pace and and you know if you as we did before going to deciding to go for the fully electric

Ian

00:38:44.469 - 00:38:47.35 

 you kind of look at the blogs and you look at the

Ian

00:38:48.02 - 00:38:53.87 

 you know you look at the the noise online about owning an electric vehicle

Ian

00:38:54.87 - 00:38:59.649 

 there are stories that you would have read that would have put you off from ever own one

Ian

00:39:00.879 - 00:39:16.75 

 You know there there is an element of you know there are people who have had very bad experiences owning electric cars Um you know MI mine has not been great but it that's more to do with the car than its electric nature

Ian

00:39:19.419 - 00:39:20.439 

 Yeah

Simon 

00:39:20.449 - 00:39:45.6 

 sorry I was mildly distracted Someone's messaged me just to say that the audio isn't actually coming through on YouTube and Facebook Um but we'll carry on and then I'll just have to upload as as recorded Um so um yeah I think I I think there's there's kind of um and again with the puns there's there's lots of moving parts to this It's It's a bit kind of Catch 22 on one hand Either we're heading in that direction In which case why delay it or

Simon 

00:39:46.0 - 00:40:07.03 

 um he he's delaying it So II I don't know Falling into line with where everyone else is a again means that we get to take advantage of investment that's elsewhere and and um movements of kind of mass production Um that um that delivers that elsewhere So I I don't um I don't know I I must admit I'm in I'm in two minds Personally I think

Simon 

00:40:07.3 - 00:40:18.459 

 the sooner we we move away from uh from from using any form of any form of fossil fuels the better Because net zero is merely about the point at which you stop making it worse And we're we're already

Simon 

00:40:19.379 - 00:40:49.03 

 careering towards a point and we can already see the the effects of of of climate change and and what they're having And uh I think the cost of not doing enough is going to be greater than the cost of actually doing that Now um so I I mean one of our one of our um friends of the pod their their comment that they that they made um was that it's um he his claims that neither So this was from Elliot Um So um the P MS claims that neither

Simon 

00:40:49.229 - 00:41:10.189 

 people know the economy can afford to act to prevent the full impact of the climate crisis are ridiculous Uh we can afford uh to act Otherwise the problem is just going to build up becoming a greater financial and social burden for future generations to deal with A pause of commitments would feel somewhat like a decision a sensible gov Government would make But to roll back makes you question their intentions

Simon 

00:41:10.679 - 00:41:29.479 

 Um and we can we can We could Sorry there was just another apparent So fossil fuels are so expensive What would be useful right now is the financial support to make that transition so that over time they can move away from oil and gas We know that renewables are cheaper We know that energy efficiency is cheaper The energy we don't need to use is the is the cheapest of all

Simon 

00:41:29.659 - 00:41:34.32 

 So I mean that that's a very very interesting point We we're talking about all of that Sorry Go on

Ian

00:41:34.929 - 00:41:43.26 

 There's some really good points in there But I think one of the one of the difficulties in this in this whole discussion is around the idealism versus the reality

Ian

00:41:43.87 - 00:41:48.52 

 and it is that we as a society can't afford not to get that

Ian

00:41:49.159 - 00:42:11.83 

 But there's an element of you know uh and again let me paint a little picture You know we're we're we're a family of four living in Kor There's nowhere for us to charge our electric cars We both you know we both work long shifts We're not You know we're We're We're earning below the average wage

Ian

00:42:12.679 - 00:42:15.419 

 Well in in 2031

Ian

00:42:16.85 - 00:42:18.54 

 when my boiler breaks

Ian

00:42:19.51 - 00:42:21.56 

 it would have been four grand to

Ian

00:42:22.169 - 00:42:25.939 

 replace that with a gas boiler and as a household

Ian

00:42:26.659 - 00:42:29.57 

 that would have been really tough for us to find four grand

Ian

00:42:30.8 - 00:42:35.469 

 But we can't have no hot water and no heating So we're gonna have to find the foreground from somewhere

Ian

00:42:37.37 - 00:42:41.389 

 I'm not sure where we're gonna find 11 grand 12 grand for a heat pump

Ian

00:42:42.54 - 00:42:56.55 

 and that's where I think And that's where I think Elliot's kind of convers Elliott's You know idealism in that place where it slightly runs aground because I think we can all agree that it would be better if and I think we're all on that same page

Ian

00:42:57.26 - 00:43:11.389 

 But I think there is a piece that that the the difference in cost between a heat pump and a gas boiler is two X three X and the difference between an electric car and a non electric car is is 1.5 X

Ian

00:43:12.149 - 00:43:12.929 

 And when

Ian

00:43:13.459 - 00:43:20.8 

 you know money is tight and let's look at it the irrespective of who's running the country There's a really big bill to pay

Ian

00:43:21.379 - 00:43:26.949 

 and the economic forecast for the next 10 years doesn't look spectacular

Ian

00:43:27.59 - 00:43:31.34 

 That's where I that's where I I start to look at the

Ian

00:43:32.07 - 00:43:35.3 

 I start to look at these decisions through the lens of

Ian

00:43:36.149 - 00:43:37.37 

 pragmatism

Ian

00:43:38.09 - 00:43:42.78 

 And how responsible is it for a government to force

Ian

00:43:43.33 - 00:43:46.28 

 those kind of costs onto its

Ian

00:43:47.01 - 00:43:52.909 

 it's folk even though morally it's probably the right thing to do

Simon 

00:43:53.919 - 00:43:54.919 

 Um

Simon 

00:43:55.739 - 00:44:18.189 

 yeah um but those aren't the only I mean I I guess the overarching point is those aren't the only choices are they Um and um there are other choices that that can be made to to again in invest in technology or to subsidise the installation and indeed to subsidise the insulation of O of properties So um I think

Simon 

00:44:18.989 - 00:44:28.189 

 I think probably where where Some of the greatest struggle is in more rural areas where they're off gas gas network where they're using oil fired boilers

Simon 

00:44:29.08 - 00:44:53.709 

 So there'll be places where where the householder would essentially have a tank on the property that they'll they'll get filled up and from from time to time because they're basically just not on the gas network and and therefore that's the only way they can They can heat their home Um the the alternative to replace that with a with something that's powered with electricity Um you know a heat pump unless you're generating and storing that electricity on site So unless you've got lots of solar array

Simon 

00:44:53.959 - 00:45:00.03 

 um you know wind wind turbine and lots of battery storage on site The alternatives to doing that electrically

Simon 

00:45:00.58 - 00:45:01.83 

 sorry The alternatives

Simon 

00:45:02.929 - 00:45:28.05 

 by doing that electrically would would you know you you're talking about substantial upgrades both to the property and to the to the network around them in order to basically take that that that amount of power to um you know a a quiet squeaky little village Um where Where there's you know one property on a hill or whatever So so there's there's an argument there but then again you could also say that OK we exempt properties in a rural area You could say

Simon 

00:45:28.28 - 00:45:53.379 

 we exempt properties that are aren't you know aren't gonna be served by um basically that have to wait more than a given period for an electricity connection That's that's gonna be able to do it So although it's not the final you know it's not a it's not the ideal solution You don't have to have an all or all or nothing answer because Net zero isn't stopping all burning of fossil fuel Was it saying

Simon 

00:45:53.79 - 00:46:02.01 

 all of the burning of fossil fuels that still takes place is offset by some form of carbon or other greenhouse gas capture Um so

Simon 

00:46:03.149 - 00:46:18.479 

 and those properties by volume and by N by quantity aren't really gonna be that much of a contribution to the to the overall um greenhouse gas contributions from the UK So so I I think it's a there's a There's a bit of me that kind of thinks that

Simon 

00:46:19.11 - 00:46:24.31 

 there's a false argument either way to say that Actually the answers have to be binary

Ian

00:46:25.01 - 00:46:53.5 

 Yeah and I think that's a really good point because it is about the banning of and it's about uh and that's where I I'm I'm less worried about the rural side of things simply because those properties will be fewer in number I think where I start to to get a bit nervous It's a little bit like my concern with the electric car is you know when you start looking at high density housing you know social housing

Ian

00:46:54.179 - 00:46:55.5 

 rented housing

Ian

00:46:56.09 - 00:47:00.489 

 you know we we you know one of the things that I think we can all agree on is that

Ian

00:47:01.0 - 00:47:04.29 

 you know the cost of putting a roof over your head

Ian

00:47:05.189 - 00:47:08.389 

 is just extraordinarily high

Ian

00:47:08.979 - 00:47:17.81 

 And the it's the shortage of af afford The shortage of affordable property is something we've discussed on the podcast many times before

Ian

00:47:18.479 - 00:47:23.76 

 Um and and that you know that that is a real issue for us

Ian

00:47:24.32 - 00:47:30.459 

 And I just look at you know the the cost of a heat pump to be installed You kind of look at it and think Well

Ian

00:47:31.82 - 00:47:35.01 

 you know you do worry about kind of Well

Ian

00:47:35.62 - 00:47:38.489 

 you know are we going to be in a situation where

Ian

00:47:39.219 - 00:47:49.929 

 almost if it's you know we talk about no gas boiler Are we going to be going back to you know immersion heaters and and electric

Ian

00:47:50.58 - 00:48:10.84 

 whatever the what were the things the radiators with bricks in the storage you know are are we going to be headed back that way Um simply because you know which were although electrically powered were hugely inefficient Simply because the capital cost of installing them

Ian

00:48:11.36 - 00:48:13.149 

 is is lower than

Ian

00:48:13.85 - 00:48:15.56 

 is lower than putting in a heat pump

Simon 

00:48:16.29 - 00:48:36.27 

 Uh poss possibly I mean that Yeah I mean it's true that those those are the options I mean I mean the whole point of the I mean some of this actually thinks about when you think about in the seventies those were those were a choice because overnight when um when demand on the network was very very low

Simon 

00:48:36.51 - 00:48:53.979 

 it's actually if you've got a for example a coal fired power station you don't really want to shut it down overnight You actually just keep it running So what you want to do is get get you know have some way to use all of that Um extra electricity So what What seemed to be the thing in the seventies was flog that flog that electricity off at cheap at cheap rate

Simon 

00:48:54.449 - 00:49:24.01 

 Um but we've got different technologies you know and you know people people have got smart metres and things like that Now that means means that all of those things are different And you know I couldn't kind of you know speak to kind of how those works But the the technological solutions to those things are slightly different So again it isn't a heat pump is the only way of of heating a home there aren't There's more than one technology to to heat by electricity And there is There's more than one way to make sure that a property can make use of cheap rate electricity

Simon 

00:49:24.34 - 00:49:26.189 

 Um and

Ian

00:49:26.729 - 00:49:56.679 

 that's exactly how my EV charger works And again it's all slightly surreal in that it gets plugged in and we've set it up on the app And at one minute past midnight it turns itself on and it slurps from the electricity supply until 4 59 in the morning when it turns itself off Um and as I say the difference in terms of the cost of that electricity is 20% of the cost That it would be if I did the same charging during the day

Ian

00:49:57.159 - 00:50:00.87 

 And it is um it is kind of

Ian

00:50:01.709 - 00:50:24.52 

 50 times cheaper than the cost of the electricity If I was to go and plug my car in at a commercial um recharging point that's out in the wild So I think there is a situation where in in all of this you know 2050 hasn't moved Um 2030 You know the the delay 2030 to 2035 I think

Ian

00:50:24.949 - 00:50:34.01 

 But there's a bit of me just having researched it because we do do a bit of research sometimes for the podcast Um I'm not convinced it wasn't inevitable

Ian

00:50:34.87 - 00:50:37.75 

 So I guess the interesting question is

Ian

00:50:39.09 - 00:50:42.729 

 is the is the calling of it now

Ian

00:50:43.429 - 00:50:49.919 

 the honest call by the project manager who knows that they're not gonna hit the end deadline

Ian

00:50:51.439 - 00:50:57.439 

 Or surely if it's a if it's a really bad thing that Rishi has done this week

Ian

00:50:58.409 - 00:51:00.0 

 shouldn't he have left it

Ian

00:51:01.08 - 00:51:07.84 

 for whoever the next incumbent is to sit in number 10 Whoever that might be whoever that might be to

Ian

00:51:08.75 - 00:51:15.11 

 open the project plan up and think Oh my God we're not gonna hit that I'm now gonna have to announce the delay

Simon 

00:51:16.429 - 00:51:31.659 

 Um Y Yeah politically that's a That's an interesting thing So it's it's hard to tell between cos some of the things that were in the speech Um we won't dwell on them but we're quite clear I mean we've We've kind of looked at the looked at the slides but some of the things were were stuff that was

Simon 

00:51:31.86 - 00:51:40.699 

 I've stopped these things happening that we were not things that were ever gonna happen were not things that the government had had had agreed to um to actually put into place

Ian

00:51:42.86 - 00:51:47.959 

 Sorry Bins Yeah

Simon 

00:51:48.11 - 00:52:01.26 

 So seven bin Soon Um so you know So it it it's a strange kind of narrative to take and and also kind of label this I want to be honest with you but I'm gonna start my speech by making actually four very untrue claims

Simon 

00:52:01.58 - 00:52:02.979 

 Um but

Simon 

00:52:03.61 - 00:52:32.06 

 yeah it's hard to know between that whether the motivation is political or or basically just pragmatic um understanding And in which case why at this point why Why A couple of days after um after Liz Truss made her speech Uh and a week ahead of the Conservative party conference Why make this announcement now Um I don't know Um and it's the thing that the thing that worries me if if whether this is a

Simon 

00:52:33.169 - 00:52:36.26 

 Whether this is red meat to the to the people in

Simon 

00:52:36.86 - 00:52:42.899 

 um in certain political parties that may or may not be climate change deniers that basically just want all of this net zero

Simon 

00:52:43.56 - 00:52:52.34 

 Um I think some of them are quoted of of using different words to describe Net zero and that we should just get rid of all of this green quote unquote crap Um

Simon 

00:52:53.07 - 00:53:07.169 

 I is that just kind of red meat to them to kind of get them off off of his back I I don't know I obviously I'm I'm not sa I'm not sat in that room But an indication for me would be the stuff that's happened since which seems to be a

Simon 

00:53:08.939 - 00:53:30.919 

 seems to be a wanting to position themselves of So it's almost like a bit It's almost like a bit like the Republican Party in the in the US They're trying to make sure that everybody understands that they're they're the party of liberty and they're the party of free choice And we want to protect your guns They're coming for your guns Um despite there actually being no evidence of of the of them coming for their for their guns

Simon 

00:53:31.33 - 00:53:49.6 

 Um we obviously don't have a gun you know guns widely available in in the UK So it's not kind of something but a something people do have a personal and emotional attachment to is that block of metal that they pay a lot of money for That spends 95% of it time unoccupied sat sat doing nothing but depreciating

Simon 

00:53:50.139 - 00:54:01.909 

 Um and it seems that the tactic is to put the is the government to put itself on the side of car owners Um you know when you see the the stuff about the 20 miles an hour stuff that they think they've come up with since

Ian

00:54:02.209 - 00:54:04.409 

 ending the war on motorists

Simon 

00:54:04.729 - 00:54:07.439 

 And it's this this whole kind of thing of

Simon 

00:54:08.639 - 00:54:36.87 

 in when you look at that in context I I don't know that makes me feel quite uneasy If I'm really honest in one sense there's a bit of me that could say OK if this was the pragmatic decision of what you needed to do because otherwise you weren't gonna make it make the decision now but the But in any situation if you've got a if your project owner has said Well we're not gonna change our end target but we're gonna move these milestones Usually what they turn around and say is what are you gonna do to make sure

Simon 

00:54:37.26 - 00:54:54.719 

 that in two years time we're not having the same conversation and we are gonna be on track for the for this new milestone that we've set And also what are you doing to alleviate the the the the squeezing of the milestone Basically the journey to the next milestone from this one that you've just you've just kind of moved down the timeline Um

Simon 

00:54:55.1 - 00:55:18.679 

 is that just kicking the can down the road And will we have another conversation in two years time where where that happens has he just given a free pass to Starmer where Starmer can say Well we're not going to bring it back to 2030 because we don't want to mess uh mess investment and mess the industry around uh again So he's essentially just given Keir Starmer another five years to sort a problem that that that Rishi Sunac has has has created

Simon 

00:55:18.909 - 00:55:31.879 

 But it I I don't know I just find it interesting the differing voices that you've got coming out of the of the quote unquote leadership of the of the Conservative Party the differing the differing wings of it It's got more wings than a

Simon 

00:55:32.6 - 00:55:35.709 

 dragonfly I think at this point um

Simon 

00:55:36.51 - 00:55:57.439 

 as to as to we should be going for this and investing in it because it's a future for our economy and it's the right thing to do for our country and our planet And um A As Elliott said the cheapest energy is the energy you don't have to use So these are all the things we should be going hell for leather in and actually investing in our uh in our own people But it

Simon 

00:55:58.209 - 00:56:20.959 

 I I don't know I I feel at the moment like it's just kicking the can down the road and either hoping that there's some sort of miraculous technical technological solution which we've seen how well that works in other other things over the last seven years Um or hoping that someone else will just have to deal with it And it won't And it won't be him because you know even if the Conservatives win the next election it's not likely to be him That's around that Go

Ian

00:56:21.479 - 00:56:28.84 

 No I I think I think you know as I touched on at the start I think it is the I think it is a positioning

Ian

00:56:29.37 - 00:56:40.239 

 of the Conservative Party for the next election I think you know we have to look at the Uxbridge By-election

Ian

00:56:40.77 - 00:56:58.919 

 I think we have to look at the you know the tipping point within that election You know almost every political commentator acknowledges that you Les played a part in that and that it was the unpopularity of you

Ian

00:57:00.0 - 00:57:01.0 

 Oh if you press the button

Simon 

00:57:01.139 - 00:57:02.989 

 Yeah I did Sorry I was trying something Don't

Ian

00:57:03.0 - 00:57:27.28 

 Don't do that again There's an element of you Les Coming to Uxbridge was the tipping point That meant the conservatives kept that seat against all odds So II I am looking you know as as we do as observers of the political landscape I am I am not convinced that there is a a piece going on now which is that

Ian

00:57:28.34 - 00:57:37.28 

 uh I think against the backdrop of of you know a increase in cost of living and

Ian

00:57:37.989 - 00:57:43.939 

 you know the the just the general uh expenses I think anything

Ian

00:57:45.25 - 00:57:48.129 

 I think when when people look at

Ian

00:57:49.0 - 00:57:50.85 

 what is the right thing to do

Ian

00:57:51.939 - 00:57:54.82 

 But what will be the personal cost to them

Ian

00:57:55.439 - 00:58:15.939 

 You know we've discussed it on Portsmouth with cars before haven't we You know everybody thinks there should be less cars on the island Everyone thinks that somebody else should give their car up because there's not room for all of them Um the concept that you might be the person to give the car up is where everything tends to hit a stumbling block So I I think there is a There is a bit of political positioning here

Ian

00:58:16.77 - 00:58:17.639 

 The the

Ian

00:58:18.169 - 00:58:26.61 

 and again You can argue morally where it comes from but I I think it is a It is a statement about you know

Ian

00:58:27.229 - 00:58:29.12 

 some these things

Ian

00:58:29.729 - 00:58:35.26 

 I think they're very popular with you know people who are very invested in

Ian

00:58:35.77 - 00:58:41.459 

 in sort of climate change and would consider themselves to be green And I put that in air quotes

Ian

00:58:42.139 - 00:58:52.669 

 I think for people who want to do their bit I think they'll self select any anyway But I think it is I think it will be a popular move with

Ian

00:58:53.26 - 00:58:59.689 

 the person on the street to say Well we're not going to impose this expense on you

Ian

00:59:00.56 - 00:59:04.459 

 um and effectively will dare the Labour Party now

Ian

00:59:05.139 - 00:59:05.84 

 to

Ian

00:59:06.6 - 00:59:07.28 

 to

Ian

00:59:07.79 - 00:59:11.689 

 say Oh yes we're going to or to to hang with him

Simon 

00:59:14.51 - 00:59:25.09 

 Yeah it's a It's a disappointing type of um political brinksmanship when actually what's at risk is the environmental future and I and I know this is

Simon 

00:59:25.629 - 00:59:34.209 

 this is quite a hyperbolic point But when When When What's actually at risk is the is actually the the future of the future of the planet

Simon 

00:59:34.83 - 00:59:35.629 

 Um

Simon 

00:59:36.189 - 00:59:38.77 

 I don't think our Children's Children are going to thank us for

Simon 

00:59:39.82 - 00:59:49.889 

 pissing away the the possibility of kind of moving forward by arguing about whether or not we could take some of the subsidy Well take the subsidy away from fossil fuel investments

Simon 

00:59:50.629 - 01:00:15.54 

 um and tax those unwelcome profits that have happened because of the increases in um in um oil because of because of the Ukraine war because of Putin's invasion of Ukraine and invest those in actually bringing down bills and actually bringing down costs of energy Um for the households that es especially those that need it by increasing their insulation and by um solving some of the problems about

Simon 

01:00:16.129 - 01:00:26.659 

 the installation of of of kind of charging points Yeah we we're not the only city that's going to face the problem of how do you fit in charging points in loads of rows and rows of of of front

Simon 

01:00:27.179 - 01:00:34.37 

 flat fronted properties And in fact there are actually many differing solutions that work from having the charge points in

Simon 

01:00:34.889 - 01:01:02.429 

 um in lamp Post which is something I think that's been uh been pushed forward in Portsmouth to not be quite literally actually running a running a cable in a in essentially what's a gutter uh from the property um to the street so that you can kind of do it that way You know all all of those things can can be fixed but they are all um political choices And I think it's a shame that all of those things rather than just problems that need to be solved are actually being used as barriers to actually do it Um

Simon 

01:01:03.02 - 01:01:17.07 

 but I think you're right That that some of this is the lesson that the the government have learned from the result of the Uxbridge By-election And they found a wedge issue that they're going to use to try um to try and win the next general election They've got

Ian

01:01:17.08 - 01:01:32.229 

 to find they gotta find something Simon They're not ready to give it up quite yet and no And I think that's where as we get into as we get into conference season it's gonna be interesting isn't it The Conservatives have got theirs this weekend I think it's labour next weekend

Ian

01:01:33.09 - 01:01:46.01 

 Yes so So I I think that's where as political pundits we will wait and see You know the Conservatives have set out their stall as the uh as the champion of the motorist and

Ian

01:01:46.87 - 01:01:49.429 

 next weekend and see

Simon 

01:01:50.31 - 01:02:14.159 

 to see whether from is it Manchester or Birmingham they're in They're gonna talk you know whether they're going to talk about cancelling um another leg of of H two You know at this point it's not going to get very far outside of London but But it will be interesting to see what happens to the polls Um because the the conservatives have recently started to or whether that's a blip or not um to be seen But

Simon 

01:02:14.639 - 01:02:40.78 

 they've closed the closed the gap between them and labour Can they You know what will happen Cos normally parties actually have a poll bump when they have their conference week Um so what will that do to them And indeed will that become a uh become a staging point for them For them to kind of fight a battle on um or will Labour do enough in their in their conference Um to be able to regain

Simon 

01:02:41.27 - 01:02:44.1 

 um that that um that gap who

Ian

01:02:44.11 - 01:02:59.209 

 knows Who knows Time is upon us and so we won't go into H S3 my campaign for a high speed link between London and Portsmouth We'll leave that for another show You've been listening to the Pompey politics podcast I bie and Tiny Morris

Simon 

01:02:59.659 - 01:03:26.6 

 and I've been Simon Sansbury and uh do make sure to join us Uh next week Uh where we have our um have the first of our ward reports where we're gonna be speaking to the Pauls Grove a ward councillors and the and the following week uh we're gonna be speaking to Portsmouth's uh Lord Mayor So uh do enjoy um do indeed join us next week at 6 27 where hopefully we'll have the audio also working Um and uh we'll we'll see you then

Simon 

01:03:34.679 - 01:03:37.699 

 Thank you for listening to this episode of the Pompey politics podcast

Simon 

01:03:38.36 - 01:03:41.53 

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Simon 

01:03:42.3 - 01:03:55.699 

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Simon 

01:03:56.34 - 01:04:14.85 

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