Portsmouth's Pharmacy Summit

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:00:13.56 - 00:00:23.04 

 As November progresses the latest episode of the podcast Our focus this week against the backdrop of all sorts of

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:00:23.6 - 00:00:49.11 

 uh Cabinet reshuffle Shanna goner And uh threats to world peace We're gonna focus in closer to home um looking at Portsmouth and perhaps what should be the first line of healthcare provision We've had a pharmacy summit this week in Portsmouth and we have got a a very esteemed guest to uh to give us the inside track Simon would you like to introduce

Simon Sansbury:

00:00:49.77 - 00:01:03.22 

 Um so we are joined uh again by a friend of the pod Uh Councillor Matthew Winnington who is the cabinet member for um health Well being and social care on uh Portsmouth City Council Good evening Matthew And welcome back

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:01:03.729 - 00:01:05.8 

 Thanks very much Uh lovely to be here

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:01:06.5 - 00:01:24.69 

 So So Thank you Every time you come back your your title seems to get a little bit longer with something else T tacked on I'm sure I'm not imagining that but um if you could first of all give us a give us a quick insight into what this uh pharmacy summit was and and why was

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:01:24.699 - 00:01:29.169 

 it called Yeah Yeah And uh I say thanks so much for being here Um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:01:30.11 - 00:01:36.209 

 we called the summit This actually came from uh something I had a year off the council And uh

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:01:36.76 - 00:01:54.69 

 uh uh uh an enforced year off Uh as as uh as people will know um if they follow the election results But um I came back and there was already some concern that had been going through the health and well being board about um pharmacies closing in the in in the city

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:01:55.919 - 00:02:21.449 

 and uh one of the first things that came back and and part of my role as Cabinet member for community Well being health and care is that um I'm also the co-chair of the Health and Well-being board And uh at the time uh Councillor Joe Jackson was still leader of the council and is on the health and well being board That's one of uh uh again one of the uh leaders responsibilities to sit sit on that board And he'd been bringing up about the fact that

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:02:21.619 - 00:02:35.669 

 there's these closures What can we do about it And there's this thing called the pharmaceutical needs assessment And at the time the needs assessment didn't allow you to take any stance against any closures of your pharmacies in the area

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:02:36.619 - 00:02:46.82 

 In my first year back the law changed and we could then start to actually say we don't think that uh we should have gaps in our pharmacy provision

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:02:47.36 - 00:02:50.94 

 So really it all started with that And then um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:02:51.589 - 00:03:09.24 

 earlier this calendar year we were sort of talking this through and I was talking to uh Captain Vernon Jackson And this came on the back of the fact we'd done a GP summit last uh two GP summits last year So we did one in August and then a follow up in January So in the last municipal year

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:03:09.94 - 00:03:33.36 

 uh and then um we were and we were planning on doing another one and and in discussion with with Gerald and with uh partners we thought Well why don't we do one with about pharmacies Because we have these issues with um closures We ha We know that pharmacies have very similar situations and issues in terms of staffing as as as uh GPS do

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:03:33.699 - 00:03:55.94 

 um so really it was a case and and also they can often feel like the forgotten part of um of primary care So when people think of primary care they think of their GP surgeries Or as we try to get people to think about them they're more than just GPS So medical centres So nurses um occupational therapists physios

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:03:56.229 - 00:04:22.98 

 um all that kind of thing that you get your uh uh your surgeries But also you think there's opticians and dentists as well but pharmacies are actually a really key part of primary care So that was really the reason behind saying Let's give them some priority and let's give them some attention and let's But they have very different issues for a lot of others because in the end they are not only part of the primary care system they're also straight up businesses as well

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:04:24.329 - 00:04:27.17 

 So what did you hope to achieve by bringing everybody together

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:04:27.89 - 00:04:30.279 

 So it was very much a case of

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:04:30.829 - 00:04:58.91 

 Let's let's see what their issues are And we know from the GPS uh from the GP surgery Uh sorry From the GP summits we've done we've had some really practical outcomes These are what's known in the trade is wicked issues They're not things you can solve easily They're not things you can you can do And a lot of the things that happen are things you can't control Cos they're national legislation their national policy

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:04:59.269 - 00:05:03.54 

 But it's about really getting through that and going well what can we actually achieve

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:05:04.209 - 00:05:08.16 

 in Portsmouth ourselves How can we work together on this

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:05:08.959 - 00:05:36.209 

 So really for us the the first thing we did we did a round table back in at the end of September And that was something that um we did alongside um the pharmacists themselves and really said to them You tell us what your issues are and then that really led us forward to to to say right you've told us what the issues are What can then we we put there is is the the four a areas to prioritise

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:05:36.529 - 00:05:48.589 

 um in there And some of those issues that came out were things that to be honest I did not have an idea that was such an issue but actually made complete sense So one of them was safety

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:05:49.6 - 00:06:12.339 

 Um so they were having a uh an issue with um they're having issues in pharmacies Obviously late night pharmacies are often the only place that's open or one of the few places that's open at that time of night But they're certainly the only ones where people think it's a healthcare professional someone I can trust They also have drugs in there Obviously they're pharmacists

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:06:12.73 - 00:06:40.459 

 Um and uh and also they often have people who are in severe distress and that's at all times of the day when they're opening So one of the key things that we wanted to do is make sure that uh the police were there and they were um and and that we could address some of those particular issues Um there So that's just that's just an example as as one of the things we really wanted to sort of sort of have practical solutions

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:06:41.029 - 00:06:46.01 

 No we'll definitely pick some some more of those up in a little bit more detail later in the podcast

Simon Sansbury:

00:06:46.149 - 00:06:53.149 

 So So what sorts Who Who was basically there in the in management speak That's who were who were the stakeholders I guess But

Simon Sansbury:

00:06:53.329 - 00:06:59.519 

 who who goes to that sort of things You you you talked about uh police But who were the others who were the other parties that were present

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:06:59.549 - 00:07:14.16 

 So we had everyone So we had uh uh in terms of thinking about the statutory sector So obviously we as the city Council were hosting it But we do it under the umbrella of health and care Portsmouth which of course includes the City Council All

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:07:14.17 - 00:07:35.01 

 of the uh healthcare system in the city The NHS Um also the hive these days as well Which is which is great Um but then we were also including further AFI So um the integrate care boards um across Hampshire is the whites cos that's a really key thing because their responsibility for pharmacies goes up through them

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:07:35.79 - 00:07:58.63 

 We had uh the community pharmacies South Central So they're like the kind of professional body for our community pharmacists in the area Uh we had pharmacists coming in from the hospital because though they're not community pharmacists they do obviously have that professional collection But then we were looking at things I said about business So we real real key one for us was to have shape in Portsmouth there

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:07:58.89 - 00:08:17.38 

 which of course brings acro brings business from across the city because they I one of the things that came off of the round table was Are you connected in with the business community No we're not connecting in with that business community So So getting that that side of it as well Um because obviously

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:08:18.079 - 00:08:31.209 

 that that that can really help them in terms of how to develop their business side as well Uh and then obviously we had uh pharmacists themselves uh people from the pharmacy Um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:08:31.459 - 00:09:00.0 

 uh providers So the the businesses that that run pharmacies uh we had a couple of students there Uh so a ph student and actually a law student And she she actually came because she wanted to come and and get a bit of more of an idea of the uh the way that um uh local systems work political systems um statutory systems all this kind of thing So that was really that was really positive Um and then we had uh

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:09:00.95 - 00:09:16.859 

 And then we had other parts of the of of sort of the local uh community in terms of our So we had uh GPS represented and et cetera So it was a It was a real cross section of the the people that can make a difference to how community pharmacy works

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:09:16.869 - 00:09:17.244 

 So

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:09:17.255 - 00:09:28.354 

 look at that Matt What You and you touched on it earlier What What were the what were the key themes coming out in terms of those key issues that the pharmacies and the service providers were facing

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:09:28.395 - 00:09:35.229 

 Yeah So So we said about obviously we had that I mentioned about the uh the

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:09:35.739 - 00:09:44.96 

 uh mental health and uh safety themes Uh so we actually looked at those together Um so we we we did sort of one table on each of these

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:09:45.53 - 00:09:49.34 

 uh we had about how they can connect more into the community

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:09:50.15 - 00:10:18.549 

 as a whole So how can they uh both uh and that's when we're looking at the business community but also in the high street How can they sort of become partners there Um we were looking at uh so from 2026 every pharmacist who who qualifies will be what they call a prescribing pharmacist Um as a professional qualification So they can then uh uh prescribe medication rather than just dispense it Um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:10:19.28 - 00:10:38.7 

 the skill set actually that current pharmacies have um mean that it's it's It's one of those things where you get a piece of paper Almost every current pharmacist could do that But you have to have accreditation to be a prescribing pharmacist So one of the issues that was being brought up was they don't know how to Um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:10:39.489 - 00:11:00.53 

 uh sorry It's very difficult to get that certification because of the lack of people who can do that training So it's about how we can move through with that but also how to make the most of that And then we were looking at workforce so that that side of things on how do we increase our workforce Uh because like with GPS like with other things

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:11:00.7 - 00:11:13.25 

 we have real issues with recruitment Um and indeed retention So what can we do within that system to make Portsmouth an attractive place A to come to and B to stay in as as

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:11:13.26 - 00:11:21.65 

 pharmacists So did you look at any of this through the sort of lens of the customer Um in terms of how they perceived pharmacies

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:11:21.659 - 00:11:28.95 

 Absolutely So um so one of the things that came back from that very beginning point about why Why should we do this

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:11:29.2 - 00:11:57.07 

 And that we did in the round table and And that we did Obviously in the uh in there was the fact that and uh Gerald did I asked Gerald to do the introduction because he'd been there from that very beginning and it all came for him from that original um point of view of the people talking to him you know saying I've tried to use my pharmacy for this I'm really worried that this is closed down and all that kind of side And we know

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:11:57.7 - 00:12:09.51 

 if we start getting gaps in our provision around the city we know for those people who need to use uh pharmacist on a regular basis for their medication they tend to be the least mobile people of all

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:12:10.15 - 00:12:28.809 

 um that it's all about how how we can make better use of them in terms of so people can feel like they're not imposing on their pharmacists but also when they're when they're being told Oh rather than go to your surgery go to a pharmacist that pharmacists are actually gonna have the capacity to see them

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:12:29.0 - 00:12:58.599 

 So otherwise there's no point But also most importantly we know that um people have relationships with their pharmacists Yeah we we all have to get medication one time or another And if you're getting your medication all the time you get to have a re relationship Whether you're getting it delivered to you in your homes or whether you're going in and collecting it on that regular basis there's someone you can trust And they are a trusted part of our high street And yeah and trust levels for pharmacists are very high

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:12:58.859 - 00:12:59.5 

 Um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:13:00.26 - 00:13:05.429 

 so it's very much on how What can we do A To improve that Because

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:13:06.13 - 00:13:32.51 

 as much as there is a lot of trust for so it kind of falls down and people have poor experiences Um but also B you wanna make sure that they can keep it up One of the big things that happened in recent times for example was lack of medication So you would maybe go to your pharmacist and be told we haven't actually got that in now There will be huge supply issues Um especially not long after Brexit in particular

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:13:32.96 - 00:13:54.789 

 Um and though the things have improved now you still do have some and pharmacists don't necessarily always work together as well as they could do Um and again That's not because it's it's not because of any malice or or we're in competition with each other Therefore we shouldn't It's just there isn't There haven't been those structures in place

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:13:55.14 - 00:14:01.21 

 uh over the years to really put to really have that that way of working together as well You seem

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:14:01.219 - 00:14:20.369 

 to have touched on some really big issues there And II I can't I think the word was was the word you used wicked problems Um you know are are those things within the gift of PC C or the Cabinet member for health Well being and all other general goodness is it within your gift to

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:14:20.559 - 00:14:22.099 

 to influence and to change I

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:14:22.46 - 00:14:31.07 

 think the whole point is it's not about me or the cabinet It's about using our ability to bring people together Um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:14:31.25 - 00:14:56.84 

 and so we can we can bring those people who can make that difference because we're not We're absolutely not in a position where we can wait for magic wands but at the same time we are in a position whereby um and this has been the case with both this and with the GP summit as well we are there to represent the people of this city Uh and we we go on their feedback you know the GP summit on the same thing That was all about people's

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:14:57.51 - 00:15:25.46 

 concerns what people have brought to us you know myself and and and uh and other members of the cabinet But also all councils all 42 ha have had people um who have had issues with um accessing a GP et cetera et cetera So So it's one of those things where you've got the opportunity You've got the responsibility almost that you can bring people together and by the attendance that we had

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:15:26.51 - 00:15:46.179 

 It shows that people are receptive to to that and and really value it as as something and recognise that we do have that ability to do things So So it's very much about bringing it together And actually the people you're having at these summits they're the experts They know far more about this stuff than than any of us

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:15:46.57 - 00:16:05.159 

 but often they only lots of different parts have only part of the um they only have part of the uh knowledge that they actually learn things So it's about bringing that into almost a crucible whereby real positive solutions can come out at the other end

Simon Sansbury:

00:16:05.89 - 00:16:09.619 

 And that almost segues beautifully into our next question

Simon Sansbury:

00:16:09.83 - 00:16:27.77 

 Um so pharmacies are a are a private business and the funding model is probably quite confusing to to most people What what effect does that in itself that operating model have on the problems that they face and the sorts of solutions that um that are gonna be needed to to help tackle the the sorts of issues that you were talking about

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:16:27.78 - 00:16:33.82 

 just now Yeah I I think I think pharmacies are are are very very um unique

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:16:34.07 - 00:17:01.809 

 because they have a funding stream which is entirely from the public sector which is all about um the uh the prescriptions they dispense So all those medications they dispense with prescription um with the the con there's contracts to do things like um vaccinations and and and other uh and other things So uh so they have this big public sector obviously funding

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:17:02.02 - 00:17:22.43 

 but that's for very specific things But then they also have all those other things that people go to their pharmacies for So um you think of all your over the counter medication you a lot of people we know go to pharmacies because especially when they want to try something new they go to a pharmacist because they say Right um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:17:22.93 - 00:17:41.619 

 we need some advice before we do it even if it's over the counter or the only place you can get O that that particular over the counter medicine is from a pharmacist Because though it might be something you can do without a prescription you should It's still kind of uh one that you should take on advice You know you don't want to be taking um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:17:42.229 - 00:18:11.42 

 eye drops for example uh that you've never had before Uh that might be you know have some particular side effects for some people without talking to your pharmacist So you know they're the ones that tend to sit behind the counter Um uh And then there's as we say there's other ones that that you have to buy from a pharmacist So but that's a commercial side isn't it So uh and then there's all those other things that people go you know toothpaste and uh cleaning things and and all kinds of bits and pieces

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:18:11.79 - 00:18:39.979 

 So So they've got this this balance because you could be an incredibly successful in terms of gathering thing from from the public sector But then again you can probably never really control exactly how much you get because you never know how much prescription you get to dispense Um but if you're if you're sort of supply you know your other side is is completely fading through the floor Then um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:18:40.609 - 00:19:00.219 

 then you you might just say well commercially we'll have to co um or vice versa So that was one of the things about why to to bring them in with the with the business community and and actually get the business community out of the summit and and get them to So they've got that expertise

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:19:00.38 - 00:19:10.93 

 to help them with with that And And I was talking to Steph uh Neil Toski from shaping Portsmouth afterwards and he was so pleased a to have been invited but B to have

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:19:11.16 - 00:19:31.189 

 to sort of how to handle in with with with that that part of the business community to help them so they can help them as a organisation thrive because obviously they support all parts of our business community from your smallest micro enterprise right up to the massive uh organisations like

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:19:31.739 - 00:19:37.27 

 BAE Systems Um uh and other other of our big commercial um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:19:37.839 - 00:19:58.489 

 enterprises that that that uh operate in the city So So it's it's it is a very difficult thing And um I think we're gonna come on to funding in a bit but uh yeah Obviously the funding streams are uh extremely complicated And and like with a lot of bureaucracy can be um extremely

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:19:59.189 - 00:20:03.17 

 uh well difficult to to navigate as well Yeah

Simon Sansbury:

00:20:03.18 - 00:20:26.41 

 cos I mean I mean Ian and I both both live in cosham So uh the boots on the high street has just recently closed Um I've heard about um some of the some of the pharmacies that are concessions in in supermarkets They're they're kind of wi with withdrawing for that Are they pointing to kind of particular things about how they're funded that that kind of cause those decisions or are they just to do with the wider

Simon Sansbury:

00:20:26.989 - 00:20:28.64 

 perhaps the the wider retail

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:20:28.65 - 00:20:56.3 

 environment It's not clear I I think I think so You you're right about obviously boots and beach are doing a They're ration They're rationalising as they call it Um and I think they are looking at that High Street because obviously it's not just the it's not just the pharmacy that's closing It's that entire branch in In in Kham Um certainly with Lloyd's who are closing out all the Sainsbury's that they're doing that that's clearly to do it's commercial that they're just thinking

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:20:56.449 - 00:21:14.25 

 it's not worth worth us uh sort of carrying on So I think that is that that kind of rationalising the estate kind of thing Um because again I do think the funding model uh for pharmacies is is pretty old and creaky

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:21:14.66 - 00:21:31.26 

 Um And with these big organisations you know they're still gonna have a lot of pharmacies that are um that are viable and they're gonna have hu huge amounts of branches across the country It's just going to be uh making sure the ones they've got are more profitable

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:21:31.41 - 00:21:50.489 

 Um the the elephant in the room as well of course is online pharmacy Um and that that is the real um So we have a We do have um an online pharmacy in that's based in Portsmouth for example Of course most of their business is nowhere near Portsmouth I think I I heard I think the biggest

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:21:50.719 - 00:22:18.02 

 supplier of um medications I pharmacy medications in the city is based in Lee Um And uh so it's a bit there's a big online pharmacy and I think they've They've seen the stats and and uh and they're actually and they sent for Leeds That's where their warehouse is Um so So that is that is a big challenge And that's why in the way that business side of it as well if we can get people going to their local community pharmacy because a

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:22:18.369 - 00:22:29.449 

 it's around the corner from home and B it's a good experience for them to maybe think Oh I can get this that and the other And that that could be a real positive Yeah

Simon Sansbury:

00:22:29.459 - 00:22:45.17 

 you you're mentioning online pharmacies Of course I should I I I'm completely guessing at this but I'd imagine that the people that probably tend to use those would be the people that are are either time poor or or or have poor mobility Um but are using them for repeat prescriptions

Simon Sansbury:

00:22:45.439 - 00:23:13.05 

 Which and repeat prescriptions are probably the very customers that the local pharmacies rely on as their uh as kind of you know they know that that's a a quote unquote steady part of their of their customer base and their income I guess if that's the if that's taken away those those customers from from the local uh community pharmacies it's is is that kind of causing a dent Is it You know that's a speaks to a wide the wider kind of situation The switch to

Simon Sansbury:

00:23:13.229 - 00:23:17.099 

 online services that's that's hitting lots of other sectors as well Is is that

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:23:18.67 - 00:23:34.489 

 Yeah absolutely It is a It is a because you know as you say people people who are able to go online will often use online for uh for uh for um all kinds of stuff And that includes obviously medication Um I think one of the

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:23:34.839 - 00:23:50.849 

 one of the particular things is the it is And again this is why for community pharmacies cos you often have to pay postage et cetera for these things So uh it does actually add a cost to because you know if you got a prescription it's a flat It's a flat fee

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:23:51.05 - 00:24:14.665 

 no matter what the um and again this this all comes into the contract about expensive drugs and all that kind of thing because it's a flat fee Um for everyone for no matter what their prescriptions are And it's about what they get on top there So it's it's a real It is a real um concern And it's a But it's about as I say if you can give value added And you can really people really understand

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:24:14.675 - 00:24:38.3 

 why having your uh because it is the old thing of use it or lose it Because if if people do not use their community pharmacies if community pharmacies and let's remember most of our community pharmacies in Portsmouth are um either Portsmouth based businesses with quite a few branches or they are uh we've got a few single handed pharmacies all there They're not that big We have got obviously big

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:24:38.51 - 00:25:05.189 

 organisations like Rowlands for example um but most of our pharmacies in the city are either um locally owned ones with a few branches or we have single handers and talk about costume Obviously in costume you've got um the one I used to use when I I used to work there um on the corner of Bettis roads and that's a that's a independent pharmacy Um and and That's the uh that That's the kind of thing that we you just you just start to get

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:25:05.479 - 00:25:24.55 

 your real concerns about because um because actually again if they're local businesses um then they're they They are going to be reflective of the local community and have that real pull Whereas if they're big national things as we've seen with boots and we've seen with ro uh with Lloyds

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:25:25.349 - 00:25:39.26 

 pulling out of pulling out of an area is just well it's pulling out of an area It's just one of their many shops Exactly It doesn't really mean anything to them Um which is which is as I say can be really concerning

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:25:40.219 - 00:26:03.189 

 And an interesting point there Matthew So so again I if we we've touched on the challenge of of those you know the the Internet pharmacy the online provider um you know that those those challenges and those problems look nationwide So if we look at Portsmouth as a whole is the position in Portsmouth

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:26:03.459 - 00:26:14.829 

 any better or worse than the national picture You've touched that There are you know some some local networks Wh where do we stand As a city at the moment compared to the rest of the UK

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:26:15.349 - 00:26:31.05 

 So I uh you're you're quite right Obviously there there are national issues Um the issues with recruitment uh for pharmacies I think are that's the particular uh that's the particular issue that we have And and uh I

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:26:31.239 - 00:26:56.92 

 sort of BBC south on on on the I think airs on Friday Um and and obviously they came to the summit on Wednesday and uh and and I said it's coastal communities so coastal communities do have a particular issue right across the health and social care sector So we found this original with GPS We know we have this issue as well with pharmacists Um partly it's because your recruitment has to come all from

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:26:57.469 - 00:27:08.27 

 well 100 and 80 degrees as opposed to 3 60 Um And that that's just that's just it's just the reality the reality of Of of being on the coast Um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:27:08.91 - 00:27:36.38 

 but it does cause that particular that particular issue um one of the big things we're doing and I mentioned about we had um university student with us We also had people from the the university themselves At the at the summit was about uh re uh the re the training up of local pharmacists at the university and and retaining them We know that that's a real bonus but it's for us to make the most of that

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:27:36.76 - 00:28:06.189 

 But you have this perverse situation now and and this came up and I didn't know about this So when they do their training they are allocated to anywhere in the country You don't have any control So if someone does their pharmacy degree they now have to go and do their um uh their their sort of formal training to become fully a fully registered pharmacist But they are They're they're allocated randomly

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:28:06.38 - 00:28:27.199 

 So I think within a reasonable distance Um but it is literally anywhere And you you used to be able to kind of retain a certain amount to a local area But you can't do that now It's it's you basically bid for them So pharmacies bid for these pharmacy graduates

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:28:28.089 - 00:28:41.5 

 and that causes real issues in terms of cos a lot of people we know Portsmouth University has a pretty good retention rate for people from who do their degrees here who stay in Portsmouth or in the Portsmouth area

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:28:42.849 - 00:28:57.41 

 with pharmacies now you Now this happens You can't do that You haven't got So even if someone goes there Oh I really like Portsmouth I'd really love to stay here They then get their placement in Buckinghamshire or something like that Once you've moved up there

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:28:58.06 - 00:29:09.01 

 you might really like a place But you think Oh well I I'm up here now Maybe I'll meet someone you know I've I've got accommodation I've I've made some friends Do I really want to go back

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:29:09.569 - 00:29:39.41 

 Um so we know we're fighting against that and and and obviously that's an issue that that happens with every university Now that trains pharmacists Um but yeah but it is It is that particular issue with coastal communities Um that we do have We do have that I think however the thing that we do have that's different from everywhere else is we have a history of integration and close working across the health and social care sector

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:29:40.489 - 00:30:00.609 

 including the council Um and also we have networks like um Shape and Portsmouth So uh we had one of uh ra raj Lally from uh who's uh who's um on the board of Lily's pharmacy His dad set up the uh the business Um uh you know a few decades ago now

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:30:00.839 - 00:30:23.439 

 Um but he's actually a local GP as well And um and so he has that sort of double perspective And he actually made a comment about um how much the how much integration and working together there is in Portsmouth and looking for solutions to these kind of things compared to elsewhere where liess operates

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:30:23.719 - 00:30:35.729 

 Uh and then obviously within the network they know You know you go to other parts of the country you don't have that that kind of proactive attitude it will be very much It's all siloed that that's

Simon Sansbury:

00:30:35.739 - 00:30:48.03 

 it's It's very interesting that you um that that you mentioned that um And it's almost a spoiler for our next question Which was which is it Well OK so yeah Um speak Can you speak a bit more to how of how

Simon Sansbury:

00:30:48.349 - 00:30:54.109 

 how effective In Portsmouth The link is between uh between GPS and pharmacies then And how how does that differ to

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:30:54.119 - 00:31:12.16 

 elsewhere Yeah So the um so one of the issues that uh that I know community pharmacies are struggling with now is that uh so uh a lot of GPS surgeries or medical centres Um have um their own pharmacists And that's actually quite an attractive

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:31:12.449 - 00:31:24.979 

 uh career path for newly qualified pharmacist to go into to want to go into GP surgeries um or medical centres Um and we'll try and get there We'll try and get there Um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:31:26.089 - 00:31:52.16 

 because because of the nature of it because if you look at some of the issues that community pharmacies have is that they are um you do have that and social behaviour aspect You do have the fact that there are You know we have pharmacists unfortunately who are threatened community pharmacies who are threatened We have uh dealing with people who see they're on the They're on the high street they're on the street They're

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:31:52.579 - 00:32:10.39 

 people think they're they're medical professionals they can help me So when they're in mental health crisis et cetera et cetera And so actually and their long hours as well because you know we're talking about uh especially if your late night pharmacies uh is quite so it it's um in the same way Ironically that

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:32:10.989 - 00:32:21.81 

 um that GPS uh that were trying to recruit GPS is um is less attractive than working at a hospital which you might think is

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:32:22.17 - 00:32:46.479 

 slightly perverse But it's because of the nature of it that number of GPS are going down and number of hospital doctors are going up So while doctors are going up over the boards there are less GPS now than there used to be because mo the the proportion used to be the other way round You used to have more GPS than hospital doctors and now it's going the other way So so

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:32:46.869 - 00:33:04.229 

 because of the pressures on the community pharmacy you're you're starting to get this this thing of actually I'll go and work in my local surgery instead and be a pharmacist there or in the hospital or whatever Cos your hours tend to be more set Um your

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:33:04.579 - 00:33:29.689 

 that room as opposed to front front facing So there does tend to be it it it has a bit of an image issue but with the GPS So with a GP and a pharmacist it's it's mixed I mean so for some where you have a say a pharmacy next to a surgery Actually they tend to have very close relationships and good relationship Um other places

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:33:30.119 - 00:33:44.359 

 you have a surgery It's on its own They have a ph So in caution for example because you've got um uh you've got the uh uh the surgery just off the high street and then you've got a couple of still a couple of pharmacies around the corner

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:33:44.76 - 00:34:10.52 

 That relationship's gonna be there and it's practical if on the other hand you've got um like my surgery um or uh sorry not not my surgery Uh cranes water group practise which is uh if you've got the uh Salisbury Road one for example There's no pharmacy anywhere near there Really So um a lot of their the people who are using that are gonna be going all over the place to their pharmacy So

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:34:10.719 - 00:34:16.0 

 um so when you've got a pharmacy close by that can create a relationship when it's

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:34:16.668 - 00:34:21.809 

 the surgery is here and you go wherever uh that's that That's that's uh there

Simon Sansbury:

00:34:21.819 - 00:34:40.648 

 So is that partly because there's been some consolidation hasn't there in the in the GPS in basically in the general practise sector where uh to be honest with you where practises have amalgamated and um you know kind of merged onto onto onto fewer sites Is that

Simon Sansbury:

00:34:40.86 - 00:34:47.979 

 kind of part of the thing then if if if part of the operating model of some of the some of the existing community pharmacies is there

Simon Sansbury:

00:34:48.32 - 00:35:16.59 

 they're relying on being very very close geographically to an to an existing GP surgery But then that GP surgery suddenly shuts and moves you know somewhere you know uh uh several streets away because it's being merged with a with a larger practise or whatever it is that kind of part of the thing where you where and if the pharmacies are like out on their own Like you say for the hours that they're that they're doing that's that's a L I can see how that's a less attractive proposition than being somewhere where

Simon Sansbury:

00:35:16.77 - 00:35:33.909 

 it's a co located site where you've you it's safer You you know that there's actually you know there's better security There's uh better uh availability of of of kind of resources is that are we just kind of seeing a a reaction in the pharmacy sector to respond to what's happened to the GP surgeries perhaps

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:35:33.919 - 00:35:45.245 

 is II I don't think I don't think it's particularly clear cut because actually um a few of the a few of the pharmacies that have uh closed or where the operators closed And now we're looking

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:35:45.254 - 00:36:14.219 

 to get you or someone else who's gonna come in are actually nowhere near They weren't near surgeries anyway so So I don't I don't think we can We can do a direct correlation between them Um and indeed uh So for example the Elm Grove Pharmacy which used to be I used to live literally um above the building next door many many years ago Uh so I know that one Really Well when that closed I mean when before they closed they were having queues of people outside So it was And they

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:36:14.439 - 00:36:37.09 

 people coming from a myriad of surgeries different surgeries using that pharmacy Um so I don't I don't think I don't think that's really got anything to do with the ones that particularly are closing down or because there was a surgery nearby And now there isn't Um but that's not to say that that that hasn't affected Um that hasn't affected the business And again that's where

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:36:37.439 - 00:36:57.459 

 you know if a surgery closes and and you've got um and you've got AAA pharmacy which is next door then that could have a big drop off Um but yeah I I don't think just thinking about where the surgeries have closed in recent times and merged I don't think there's been many where that's been the case Yeah And

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:57.469 - 00:36:59.205 

 I think you have the vicar Matthew

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:36:59.215 - 00:37:26.879 

 We've always got a we we we we do sometimes have a bit of a local bias in the obviously the Costume Health centre Um relocated in boots as far as so we might be uh we might be drawing calls in effect ourselves as locals That may not be mirrored across the sector Now you you've touched on some of the blockers that that um that the pharmacies are experiencing you know I I is there scope for pharmacies to

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:37:27.239 - 00:37:40.35 

 perhaps extend the range of services they provide you You I think you touched on prescribing you know Is it about reshaping You know what a pharmacy is and how it's perceived by the public

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:37:40.36 - 00:37:52.389 

 Absolutely And and the The thing is this is the the irony of all of this is that the the pharmacists actually would like to do this Um they would like to do more Uh and they want to do more

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:37:53.219 - 00:38:14.639 

 Uh but they're one of the things to do with recruitment in in capacity is that they just don't have that Um they just don't They're not able to And this as And as we have prescribing pharmacies I mean and this is why we had this as a particular uh focus at one of the uh tables at the at the summit was about How do you make the most of that

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:38:15.0 - 00:38:35.514 

 bear in mind Everyone's gonna be Everyone who qualifies is gonna be a prescribing pharmacist And also you've got a lot of existing pharmacies who want to be have that certification to be prescribing pharmacist Um how do you make the most of that when recruitment of pharmacists in community pharmacies is an issue So a how do you so it's all like

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:38:35.524 - 00:38:59.139 

 your cause and effect if you can get your if you can get your community pharmacist numbers stable and and and and as many as you need then that you're in a great place because then that enables you to do more It also takes pressures off the medical centres from your GPS and your nurses and your um occupational therapists and your physios et cetera and they go into that place So when you do say

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:38:59.33 - 00:39:28.149 

 you've got an issue with your medication you've got maybe you've been prescribed new medication and you're not sure about it Go and talk to your pharmacist rather than going to a GP Cos as any GP will tell you Actually pharmacists when it comes to actual medication side effects how it works all that kind of thing they are your they're your professional experts They know more about medication than anyone else Um because that is their entire um that's their job That's their entire um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:39:28.399 - 00:39:55.439 

 uh the entire focus of their of their profession Um so um so So it's all about it But but the blocker So to come back to that really is about that as it is about the capacity Um And also when we talked about those things to do with um issues with people coming in with mental health issues um issues where there's safety you know safety and security issues So that's all about that sort of preventative thing if we can

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:39:55.62 - 00:40:19.32 

 So one of the things that uh we found that community pharmacies didn't know for example was that we have this new mental health hub Um so in the pack that we gave out at the summit we had the information about the um we had the information about uh you are not alone which is uh our slogan for our mental health hub and that they can then get uh either the uh they can ring up on behalf of the people who come in

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:40:19.479 - 00:40:40.334 

 or do that rather than it gets to a crisis stage And then they're they're ending up with am calling an ambulance or 111 that it it it it escapes And of course that takes up a lot of time Um which which they will do But it's if we if that can be kind of there's more proactive way of of reducing the

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:40:40.344 - 00:41:09.75 

 in the time and and and also as I say that that's that safety and security side which uh the police um and our community safety team and the council as well can really sort of engage with them to give them some support about how they can better do that And of course why the business community because we know you know shoplifting is endemic at the moment Uh there's a huge amount whether it's for cost of living and and and whatever but we know there's so much shoplifting going on

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:41:09.909 - 00:41:15.729 

 Um and it's and part of that is about right OK what are other businesses doing to To try and tackle that

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:41:16.3 - 00:41:21.04 

 Um So I think a lot of that is if we can take away a lot of those things that are

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:41:21.669 - 00:41:25.61 

 um taking up a lot of their time Then they have more time to do

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:41:26.27 - 00:41:37.169 

 to do those uh to do those more more services and helping more people but also to um But that's also important about recruitment and retention as well And I I

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:41:37.179 - 00:41:55.219 

 guess What What What's unfolding for me Matthew as we've been through this conversation is I is It feels to me like there's a piece here about educating the public because II I guess if I'm uh uh and again I'll be a little provocative here Um it it almost sounds like the role of the pharmacist is

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:41:55.409 - 00:42:21.52 

 is either you know and I know this isn't their role but they could be perceived as sort of glorified shop assistants You know I go in I buy some toothpaste and razors Oh and I pick up my prescription while I'm here or in those late night environments You know they're they're almost acting as a a kind of first responder Um you know it's an element of it It it it it's almost

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:42:21.86 - 00:42:34.27 

 you know the the the picture I'm sort of that's unfurling is I can see why there might be a recruitment and retention problem but But is that as much to do with the fact that that perhaps the the public just don't understand the role of

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:42:34.28 - 00:42:47.08 

 pharmacists Yeah I So it's an interesting one because I think their feeling within the uh health and social care sector is that and this is one of the things why they partially feel out on the limb

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:42:47.36 - 00:43:11.929 

 is uh amongst some and they absolutely not all But there is almost a perception that pharmacies are as you say almost glorified shopkeep Yeah they're shopkeepers um as opposed Whereas it actually the converse is true about the general public The general public so often has very good relationships with their pharmacist especially those who use them a lot and that they know they see them as they are a trusted medical professional

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:43:12.209 - 00:43:29.205 

 So you get this this kind of dichotomy between what almost the perception is or the long kind of thing And they're out there doing something else because they always have to have that overtly commercial side to their business But on the other side you also have those Uh

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:43:29.215 - 00:43:46.219 

 you have the public who has their who actually has the thing or they see them in the same way as their experts especially those who have used pharmacists other than I go to the pharmacist and get my medication who have been in a consultation room had a chat with the pharmacist and actually found out how

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:43:46.79 - 00:44:11.81 

 um professional and knowledgeable they are And so So you You get this you get this dichotomy where actually their their reputation among the public is very positive and that they see them as a as a professional Maybe within the sector they are kind of the forgotten bit of primary care and and just going back to another thing I I just thought of in terms of uh um uh

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:44:12.399 - 00:44:42.01 

 capacity one of the things that also came out at the summit was how can we support um development of uh people within pharmacists So stuff So especially thinking about pharmacy technicians How can we support them to go forwards in terms of um uh um maybe getting to the point where they can either become pharmacists or they can do more professional development as well So so that was something that the university again was really important to have there

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:44:42.229 - 00:44:56.199 

 uh about what they what kind of professional development courses we might be able to do and also from the shop assistants as well Cos of course some Some are literally retail but they might want to get into more of that kind of uh O on the medical side of things

Simon Sansbury:

00:44:56.53 - 00:45:09.5 

 Yeah So if there if there's I I guess that makes sense doesn't it Like you say for the for the retention and de and development if if you can If you can um get into that business and you can see that there's actually a clear um

Simon Sansbury:

00:45:09.79 - 00:45:31.389 

 a a clear career path for you that that it it and you know no disparagement to to operating operating until but it But there if you if you want to kind of go something actually beyond that there there are they do they do sound like they're high you know being highly trained medical professionals the people that actually use them to the to the fullest of their capability

Simon Sansbury:

00:45:31.58 - 00:45:58.86 

 Sound like they're reporting well on actually what that experience is But maybe there's a whole gap in the public understanding of actually that's something that they can um that their pharmacy the pharmacist their local pharmacist can be helping them with when they are actually struggling to perhaps to get appointments or to get medical attention or or a voice through other through other means At the moment it's a it does seem a bit of a shame that we've got these highly trained people that perhaps aren't being used to the to the fullest of their

Simon Sansbury:

00:45:59.11 - 00:46:00.239 

 Yeah

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:46:00.25 - 00:46:19.07 

 absolutely And and And something again we we uh we talked about was actually getting into schools Um so schools Um getting those connections in and and actually saying about pharmacy is a is a really good um a really good career path because people um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:46:19.469 - 00:46:47.419 

 and that's the thing about people thinking that pharmacy is a fantastic career path and and it it can be something they could really really move forward with and and uh and everything So it it's Yeah I mean there's so many so many pathways and just thinking about it and rather than we're a pharmacist it's just us We're a community pharmacist It's just us And we have to try and come up with these solutions on our own How can we work together on this in a much more holistic way

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:47.62 - 00:46:49.55 

 and talking of that working together

Simon Sansbury:

00:46:50.08 - 00:47:10.56 

 it's almost like we prepared all of this Um so that you know you you've spoken about uh about the situation with your pharmacies and you and you mentioned a bit earlier on about GPS summit So So all of these things are interrelated But what people seem to be quite often talking about is problems getting to see their GP or problems or the near impossibility to get to see a dentist What sorts of things are happening

Simon Sansbury:

00:47:10.85 - 00:47:11.76 

 I in those

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:47:11.77 - 00:47:39.889 

 fields So uh one of the things we did with the GP summit on uh uh the week uh the Wednesday before was actually we said is there anything in particular you want to feed into the pharmacy Summit So So though they're separate and we and and we think it's right to keep them separate to make sure that they get the focus that they deserve that they are ones that sort of both ways feed in So um so now our GP summits are gonna be annual so we're gonna have one every year

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:47:40.129 - 00:48:04.58 

 Uh the the pharmacist one we are going to do a follow up in Um probably it would be probably in spring next year So in about four or five months time Uh just so some progress on on some of the bits and pieces And I would imagine we'll probably have a another one in the future We'll probably do it more of an ad hoc because it's it's um it's something we've got less overall control with And actually

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:48:04.86 - 00:48:33.969 

 if we if we get the pharmacist working with the right people I think a lot of that work can can sort of um uh can sort of multiply on its own Whereas as when we talk about the uh the um GPS We've got a lot of those are stuff because we've we've got potential for um a medical school opening up at the university for example And And the aspiration um is that they would have um GPS uh they would focus on GPS and training GPS

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:48:34.239 - 00:49:02.09 

 Um uh we've got other bits and pieces to do with um uh which Cos Of course the thing with GPS as well is of course it comes directly from it's all government funding Um so that that's that's a different That's a different thing And also you have to work completely within this single structure of the of the um uh of of how the funding works within credit care systems So um so with

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:49:02.59 - 00:49:24.679 

 um so that that's gonna be an annual thing But it's all about these things feed in And actually if we get things moving well with pharmacists I think potentially the the future GP summits as we called it it's always had a bit more of a general primary care focus Anyway So for example Simon who's uh who's the head of the uh integrate care boards

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:49:24.959 - 00:49:40.52 

 Um which F uh to do with uh not just um pharmacists but dentists as well He's actually a pharmacist by trade And so he's he's a he's a trained pharmacist Um he has dentists as well He's been to each of our GP summits

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:49:41.229 - 00:49:47.979 

 So that's where all that kind of connecting comes Um but also as I say I think

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:49:48.5 - 00:50:14.8 

 linking the pharmacist up with with uh shaping ports within the business community I think that's that's one of the most key things and a lot of the stuff to do with funding We know pharmacist funding is very very complicated but that's something that has to take place at that much higher level Um uh especially to do with contracts But what we can do as an organisation is saying we can then go up upwards

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:50:15.08 - 00:50:23.87 

 on the dentist side Obviously we've had the uh earlier this year we had the um extra however many 1000 ex um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:50:24.189 - 00:50:51.6 

 100 odd 1000 extra hours of of NHS treatment um which we now have in the city It's not enough And that lobbying goes on So uh so it it's that one I think it's it's almost a much clearer line because we know that the real issue we have is about people being able to ace and being able to access NHS dentists Interestingly now and now dentistry

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:50:51.86 - 00:51:07.81 

 It's been it's been brought from regional to the integrated care system the responsibility for NHS dental contracts So actually for us that fits in very very clearly Now with um with the work we do within that system

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:51:08.54 - 00:51:35.29 

 I'm on the integrated care partnership Uh joint committee Um and I'm on the rotation for chair of that uh we've got uh obviously we have uh a member of the Integrated care board from Portsea City Council as well as uh we have input from the local uh the local um integrated care uh within our local health and care system So a lot of that stuff to do with dentists is very clear down the line

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:51:35.679 - 00:52:02.979 

 and hopefully in future we won't have some of these The the nonsense we had earlier this year when we got the extra uh time for NHS dentistry But we weren't allowed to tell anyone um where they were because we weren't told ourselves and and we actually uh because this was region taking control and they would not They said you can't let them know Even the local authority know even the Cabinet member know where these things are

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:52:03.3 - 00:52:26.52 

 So it was So we found out where they were because people said I've seen an advertisement out at this dentist saying we've got NHS places Really Yeah it's Yeah they didn't tell they And And Joe who was our uh who is is leaving at the end of the month But she she's been our very very um uh good She was our

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:52:26.719 - 00:52:49.659 

 uh She used to run uh run the CCG effectively when we had that uh the um clinical commissioning group and which has now been merged into the integrated care uh system and the integrated care board But um she was so embarrassed because she's she was told in no uncertain terms You cannot tell anyone where these places will be Um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:52:49.909 - 00:53:17.12 

 so that was in the region Now we're under the lo the more local system So things like that should be And that means we can directly influence because we can say right you've got the you you manage the contracts Now we need more or whatever it might be I mean I I think that's gonna be a real lobbying thing And obviously within dentists That's been something that's been uh very positively uh um

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:53:17.379 - 00:53:42.58 

 interacted with by uh both MP S as well So um so I obviously penny brought uh she she did a dental summit Um about a year or so ago Um which kind of worked in with what we were doing already at the council and within the system But it was it Yeah I think that's been that's been one where it's it's much clearer that we can do things in a particular way whereas there

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:53:43.159 - 00:53:53.02 

 because it's all about if we we just need more contracts here for uh for pharmacy and for GPS it's much more It's because so much of it is about recruitment

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:53:53.84 - 00:54:09.61 

 So I guess that leads us to our final question Matthew which is that you know you you touched on the great power of the council to bring people together And it sounds like you know a lot of positive dialogue has been had H How do you ensure that the

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:54:09.78 - 00:54:16.11 

 when the talking stops that there will be positive actions that will come out of this That will benefit

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:54:16.26 - 00:54:44.159 

 So obviously uh everything that came out of the summit We're um getting obviously compiling everything So a huge amount of stuff came So it'll be compiling everything that will then go out to everyone who who both um attended and weren't able to attend So uh and then there will be actions there So that will be about how we uh we we do that And as I say the most important thing is a follow up and then we can say you said we did So that was a a really clear thing

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:54:44.32 - 00:55:04.59 

 in the GP summit We did in um uh in uh sort of the week before Obviously it was um almost a year since we'd done the last sort of follow up one And it was about you said we did And also where things We were hoping to make some uh some progress on this But it's been stalled for whatever reason

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:55:04.949 - 00:55:27.25 

 any ideas how we can help to move that forward So that's that's the real thing I think overall in terms of differences people will notice is that if we can stop any more closures um or at least um make sure we don't have any gaps We now have a so something that we've done independently I said right at the start that

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:55:27.709 - 00:55:35.919 

 the way that pharmaceut what they call the pharmaceutical needs assessment works now is changed So we can now say

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:55:36.6 - 00:55:51.199 

 this is somewhere where we need the pharmacy If a pharmacy operator pulls out then we can insist that someone comes in We can also stop mergers So there was actually a merger We stopped I think it was

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:55:51.76 - 00:56:07.189 

 um we stopped a merger in Hills We um cos they wanted to a an operator wanted to close the pharmacy there and say Oh we've got one down in I think it was north end that they could go to instead and we actually stopped that happening

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:56:07.82 - 00:56:23.199 

 Um if a pharmacy closes now or they say we uh an operator says we're gonna clo we want to close this pharmacy We can say we still need a pharmacy operator there and we can proactively go out and and recruit a pharmacy operator to come in

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:56:23.78 - 00:56:36.25 

 Um because that's now a gap You you have that power now as the local uh health Well being board to do that Um so there's that you've you've got a lot more power to say This is where we need it

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:56:36.879 - 00:57:03.85 

 In costume's case unfortunately where you have a over saturation you can't do that So you we couldn't get any We couldn't put any um anything against boots closing cos there's still two pharmacies literally on the same road So So you you you can't But we would hope that if we do things in the right way that we won't have any parts of the city that are currently

Cllr Matthew Winnington:

00:57:04.489 - 00:57:23.31 

 served by pharmacies that don't have anything Um and And that will really work through um and also by people feeling like we know what we can use pharmacies for um And um when we go in there we're gonna get a good service And actually they can do more than we thought they could before

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:57:23.32 - 00:57:30.0 

 Perfect Well that's a perfect spot to end it Matthew Thank you After such a busy week for giving us uh so much of your time

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:57:30.439 - 00:57:34.31 

 you've been listening to the Pompey politics podcast I've been Ian Tiny

Simon Sansbury:

00:57:34.32 - 00:57:38.919 

 Morris and our guest this evening has been uh Councillor Matthew And he said Atkinson

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:57:39.83 - 00:57:40.75 

 Good Lord

Simon Sansbury:

00:57:43.649 - 00:57:44.199 

 Matthews

Ian 'Tiny' Morris:

00:57:44.85 - 00:57:45.04 

 Hang on

Simon Sansbury:

00:57:46.669 - 00:57:51.489 

 Ok right OK Sorry Um and I guess has been co councillor Matthew Winnington

Simon Sansbury:

00:57:51.76 - 00:58:08.37 

 Um what I was meant to say was that um uh next week we're gonna be uh we're gonna be taking a look at uh Jeremy Hunt's um autumn statement Um so do join us at um at 66 27 next week Uh do you um like follow subscribe

Simon Sansbury:

00:58:08.53 - 00:58:38.36 

 et cetera uh to make sure you get um those notifications Um but also the following week on December the third we'll be holding the the um the another of our ward reports We've got all three Ward councillors from Ken Ward So that is Councillor Matthew Atkins Ashkar Shah and uh Mary Valerie And they'll be speaking to us about what the issues are in their ward Um and what they've been hearing from residents and um what they've been working on So uh do join us Uh next week at 6 27 where hopefully I'll get the names Right

Simon Sansbury:

00:58:45.889 - 00:58:48.899 

 Thank you for listening to this episode of the Pompey politics podcast

Simon Sansbury:

00:58:49.56 - 00:58:52.729 

 If you want to make sure you get notifications about upcoming shows

Simon Sansbury:

00:58:53.489 - 00:59:06.889 

 and get to know when we're live we normally broadcast live 6:27 p.m.

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Simon Sansbury:

00:59:07.53 - 00:59:26.05 

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